why do folks hate gnomes?

[LoneWolf23]

Are they mechanically inclined, like dwarves?

Now this I don't get... Traditionally, Dwarves where even better known for their Magic then the Elves were; especially in making Magic Items of all sorts.

Personally, I just don't see what's wrong with the race itself; if nothing else, those "bugs" previously mentionned seem born of poor roleplaying, not game design.

 

[blackshirt5]

As for the sterotypes-
The only stereotype that I have ever seen are Gnomes. ALMOST EVERYBODY I have seen play gnomes plays them same freaking way. Stupic practicle jokers. After playing in the RPGA (which might not mean much) and having gone to tons of cons around the country the gnome are always the freaking same. Either illusionists or rogues but always the "comic relief". I tried to change that, I wanted a serious gnome but like I said people expected the practicle joker.

I hate that stereotype. IMC, the gnomes are close allies of the humans and the halflings, and they helped in the creation of all the magi-tek that the other races use. They're generaly very studious, serious, and quiet, although being part fey, they do have a bit of a mischievous streak in them.

But nobody expects the airship pilot to really be the comic relief IMC(the only gnome in the group is a master pilot); the only time he really shot for a laugh was when he showed the other PCs the "fast way" down to the ground(they're like the solar boards in Treasure Planet; just drop down off of the side of the ship while on the board and you freefall until you're 50 feet off the ground. Another gnomish innovation.)

 

[Voneth]

It looks like I have to chime it on this.
I tried to play once. A gnome ranger. He was no trickster, practicle joker or tinker. I played hm like a bounty hunter, BUT other people expected the trickster so I had no fun.

Man, I get this with just the theif class. No matter if I try to play a James Bond spy or Zorro, the rest of the party expects a backstab and their purse strings cut.

 

[Bhaal]

* I enjoy the stern-hearted, no nonsense serious gnome FAR more than the slapstick nefarious "troublemaker" gnomes. It does their reputation a world of good. Seeing a human heedlessly rush into a hopeless fight and take out more enemies than thought possible before being felled himself, that's just passe nowadays. However seeing a gnome do the same thing is inspiring. When faced with combat, giving them a grim and deadly-serious attitude gives those guys far more credit than giving them an aloof and almost cowardly attitude.

* I enjoy the idea of gnomes being technologically saavy, but I absolutely detest the execution of it. People need to start tossing out the idea of "gnomish contraptions" being huge clunky brass whatchamadoodads spinning around, whistling and belching out steam. The paradigm for gnomish technology needs to be updated in a big way. I want to see beautifully crafted, ordinary looking objects that gets overlooked until it functions, and then it becomes magic in itself. No more of these obtuse, hopelessly convoluted and laughably bizarre toys, I want real engineering, practacality in ALL senses of the word.

I played with a GM that used both of the above for his gnomes, and they were more interesting than any other races (he also made their appearance rare). The ones we came across mostly were a sort of Navy SEAL squad that a large kingdom used. They had a sense of humor that rivaled a dwarf's in terms of dryness, and in combat they were bone-chillingly efficient, and this feeling was enhanced by their short height. They also had an endless supply of neat looking gadgets that seemed mysterious and incredibly powerful to us, and yet to the gnomes they were as common as a longsword. I really enjoyed the gnomes in his world more than the gnomes I've seen in any other context.

 

[Vocenoctum]

My gnomes don't do practical jokes, but they are witty and kid around a bit.

Of my current gnomes, I have a conjurer, and a barbarian-cleric-fighter.

It's kind of funny, but the bcf is actually the main muscle of that group, a group full of humans and elves. He leads the way in combat and the rest of the party looks to him more often than not.

My world view of gnomes; a friendly race that enjoys life, nature and magic. They grow up in a society that encourages knowledge, magic, reverance of the world around them.

They have great warriors, but tend to avoid wars. Their presence in conflicts is usually forgotten, which is their way.
They have great wizards/ illusionists, but they're low key about their presence on the world stage, not dominating powermongers.
Even rogues are acceptable in gnomish society, not in thieving ways like halflings tend to revere, but as locksmiths and adventurers.

Gnomes have a niche, but it's not a simple niche that can be represented by assigning them a class.

 

[Terraism]

As was said by Carpedavid, both BiggusGeekus@Work and Klaus - thanks, you two - have just persauded me to allow gnomes in my campaign world again. You two don't seem to think you had novel ideas, but from my perspective, they're great ones.

 

[drnuncheon]

The only stereotype that I have ever seen are Gnomes. ALMOST EVERYBODY I have seen play gnomes plays them same freaking way. Stupic practicle jokers.

This is a big problem I have with the "trickster" archetype - whether its in D&D (gnomes & kender) or White Wolf (Ragabash & Malkavians) or any other system, the sad fact is that most gamers just can't play that type of character without turning it into Jokey Smurf or Wile E. Coyote.

You have no idea how hard it is to take a game seriously when one of the other players is introducing themselves as Somethingorother Bananarama McBoofy Boingboing. (Or maybe you do.)

I have no problem with comic relief in general - heck, I often play characters that provide some comic relief - but I prefer the type that doesn't yank you right out of the gameworld, and I prefer the type that knows when to quit (another problem that most players who like that sort of character seem to have).

J

 

[jaerdaph]

Sorry but I just couldn't let this thread continue without sombody saying Underpants Gnome.

*steps up to mike and clears throat* Ahem. Underpants Gnome.

I feel much better now. Please continue.

 

[Darkness]

This is a big problem I have with the "trickster" archetype - whether its in D&D (gnomes & kender) or White Wolf (Ragabash & Malkavians) or any other system, the sad fact is that most gamers just can't play that type of character without turning it into Jokey Smurf or Wile E. Coyote.

That's a darn good point.

Heh. I'd probably try to make a dangerous, nearly undetectable assassin out of a Ragabash, for a change. But that's just me...

 

[Etan Moonstar]

Ultimately, the biggest reason gnomes get left out is probably Tolkien. The Lord of the Rings is certainly not the only influence behind D&D, but it is one of the strongest, especially where races are concerned. The stereotypical D&D human, dwarf, elf, and halfling are essentially watered-down derivatives of Tolkien's humans, dwarves, elves, and hobbits.

Furthermore, gnomes WERE belatedly tacked on to D&D (as far as players are concerned, at least). If you look at Basic D&D, you could play a (human) fighter, cleric, thief, or wizard, or you could play a dwarf, elf, or halfling. No mention of the gnome as a PC (and the monster entry basically portrays the gnome as a short human-like dwarf).

For those of you looking to strengthen the presence of gnomes in your world--you might wish to look through the "History of Middle-Earth" series edited by Christopher Tolkien from his father's notes. Tolkien's original notes does have a race of gnomes mentioned....been a while since I've read them, but I believe the gnomes eventually became either the Noldor or into the "dark" elves (e.g. Eol). Either of these possibilities would add a lot of distinct flavor to a D&D gnomish race.