D&D 5E Why do Monks only have d8 HP instead of d10 HP?

[ECMO3]

While I do see the thematic synergy between sorcerer and monk, and would enjoy a monk-style subclass for sorcerer, I don't think there's nearly enough power budget in the sorcerer's subclass framework to make the style of monk we're talking about here really work. And there's still way too heavy of a focus on being a caster. And Charisma is a thematically terrible core attribute for a monk.

You don't need Charisma though. If you pick defensive spells and buffs you can dump charisma to 8 and I will think you will be darn good in melee.

With the class as I said you can have 17AC in mage armor at 1st level, 20 at 4th and 21 at 8th plus 5 more for shield. You can also use SPs to quicken defensive spells like blur, blink mirror image, haste etc. so you don't lose a turn buffing. Finally you can convert slots to SPs for more flurrys so you are not constantly running out. Finally I put flurry as a stand alone bonus action, so you can do it without using an attack first. You can take any action and then flurry.

The only reason for a high Charisma is you want to play an offensive caster/gish or if you want to multiclass and either of those are moving away from the monk theme anyway.

I think together with metamagic there is plenty of power in the chassis, with the wisdom AC boost it borderlines on being OP (if you dump charisma).

 

[Greg K]

And Charisma is a thematically terrible core attribute for a monk.

I disagree. In a lot of old martial arts movies with monks, there are those that are a) not only wise, they are likeable, charismatic that they attract the respect and loyalty of others, and/or are persuasiveand diplomatic; or b) they are very intimidating and self assured to the point of being haughty or arrogant. Those same monks are also often the masters of ki/chi.

Edit: In some stories there are also young naive monks that are above average in charisma and channel ki/chi

 

[ECMO3]

A the class frame is all wrong.
b the sorcerer is a replica of a genetic magic caster from fiction.
c the monk gains power from training and enlightenment they are only superficially related it has more in common with psionics than anything else and even then only just.
d why make it a subclass of anything? its basic idea stands up anyway it just needs help mechanically and with filling out more subclasses.

I would disagree with all of these.

A. The class frame is mechanics and it does not have very much. All the sorcery frame has is metamagic, sorcery points (which fuel monk abilities) and spells (which can be chosen thematically for a Monk). It is the most appropriate class frame, without any extra baggage like Rogue and Bard.

B. The monk sublcass has learned to tune those magical genenitics into physical prowress. It is totally appropriate. It is the exact same as the sorcerer in fact.

C. It is genetic-granted magical prowress tuned through training and enlightnement. Where do you think Ki comes from? It comes from inside you.

D. I would agree with this. I was offering it as an alternative to those that want it as another subclass.

 

[ECMO3]

one is universal of all people the other is your born special big difference.

No, not really. Looking at the current Monk class and subclasses you have healing, spells and other magical abilities like Shadow Step. These are universal of all people.

You can argue all people have that sort of magic in them and the monk is just learning to harness it, but that is the same as saying everyone has sorcerer magic in them and the sorcerer is just tuning it.

 

[Undrave]

I would disagree with all of these.

A. The class frame is mechanics and it does not have very much. All the sorcery frame has is metamagic, sorcery points (which fuel monk abilities) and spells (which can be chosen thematically for a Monk). It is the most appropriate class frame, without any extra baggage like Rogue and Bard.

B. The monk sublcass has learned to tune those magical genenitics into physical prowress. It is totally appropriate. It is the exact same as the sorcerer in fact.

C. It is genetic-granted magical prowress tuned through training and enlightnement. Where do you think Ki comes from? It comes from inside you.

D. I would agree with this. I was offering it as an alternative to those that want it as another subclass.

You'll still end up with something that makes a terrible incarnation of the fiction people want to recreate with the Monk.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I would disagree with all of these.

A. The class frame is mechanics and it does not have very much. All the sorcery frame has is metamagic, sorcery points (which fuel monk abilities) and spells (which can be chosen thematically for a Monk). It is the most appropriate class frame, without any extra baggage like Rogue and Bard.

B. The monk sublcass has learned to tune those magical genenitics into physical prowress. It is totally appropriate. It is the exact same as the sorcerer in fact.

C. It is genetic-granted magical prowress tuned through training and enlightnement. Where do you think Ki comes from? It comes from inside you.

D. I would agree with this. I was offering it as an alternative to those that want it as another subclass.

a) monks are more like wizards in that anyone could in principle learn it, does that mean we should make it a subclass of that?

b) I see your reasoning here.

c) wrong fantasy the fantasy of genetic magic is being born the "special" monk is all training montages they are rather different.
the point of ki is literally everyone and everything has it like how everything breaths, so the fantasy is wrong.

d) you're better at it than anything I could make so I congratulate you for your effort.

 

[BrokenTwin]

You'll still end up with something that makes a terrible incarnation of the fiction people want to recreate with the Monk.

I mean, that would be my main concern. If I'm picking up 5E for the first time and want to make a wuxia hero, sorcerer is definitely not going to be the first place I look.

 

[Undrave]

I mean, that would be my main concern. If I'm picking up 5E for the first time and want to make a wuxia hero, sorcerer is definitely not going to be the first place I look.

Exactly, and if d8 feels too low, d6 is gonna feel even worse, HP wise.

 

[ECMO3]

Exactly, and if d8 feels too low, d6 is gonna feel even worse, HP wise.

Not really. Hit points have to be balanced against AC and defenses.

d6 hps with a 20AC all the time and shield spell and absorb elements available as reactions are going to last a lot longer than d8 with a straight 17AC and no reactions. They will last even longer than d10 hps would at that lower AC.

 

[Stalker0]

So here is my general thoughts on the subject, which was discussed in a previous Monk thread many months ago:

D&D 5E - My Response to the "Monk Sucks" thread

In the last few weeks, Treantmonk posted a video about the inadequacies of the monk class, which was discussed in this forum thread: 5E - Monks Suck I’ve taken some time to really read through the thread and the video. I’ll admit that before the thread I had generally considered the monk a...

www.enworld.org

My general conclusion: While the monk has its issues, the issues are overblown at levels 1-10. A lot of discussion about why the monk sucks are actually high level issues that people just assume also exist at lower ones....which is not the case. I don't think the monk is a great class, but it is not the "bottom of the barrel" class that people assume it to be.