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D&D 5E Why do Monks only have d8 HP instead of d10 HP?

Honestly I think you could make a solid case for the Monk as a Rogue subclass.

Frankly Rogue's already have tons of the monk's core payload..... super fast with cunning action, able to deal extra damage through "weak spots", can become expert grapplers (expertise in athletics), able to soak damage through technique (uncanny dodge).

If you had a rogue subclass that granted the unarmed damage and AC without armor, gave them some of the cool mobility stuff like walk on water, and maybe threw in a stunning strike on a sneak attack X times per day.... by gum I think you would have a pretty solid looking monk.
true but that does not mean it should be done.
 

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Undrave

Hero
Honestly I think you could make a solid case for the Monk as a Rogue subclass.

Frankly Rogue's already have tons of the monk's core payload..... super fast with cunning action, able to deal extra damage through "weak spots", can become expert grapplers (expertise in athletics), able to soak damage through technique (uncanny dodge). At high levels blindsense and evasion.... all the meat is there.

If you had a rogue subclass that granted the unarmed damage and AC without armor, gave them some of the cool mobility stuff like walk on water, and maybe threw in a stunning strike on a sneak attack X times per day.... by gum I think you would have a pretty solid looking monk.
But again, I don't think 'skill monkey' fits the popular image of a martial artist.
 


Stalker0

Legend
Yeah if the Rogues' thief cant and auto-expertise in thieves tools would be moved to the Thief archetype, it'd let some space to create some kind of monk there, I thin
Thieves can't and thieves tool are mostly ribbons though if you wish them to be. I mean if I'm playing a straight laced fighter I can just ignore his "proficiency with gambling die" the same.

Rogues don't have to get expertise in thieves tools, and expertise makes perfect sense for a monk. Expertise in athletics, acrobatics, perception, insight....I mean take your pick plenty of skills that rogues can be experts out make perfect sense for a monk as well.
 

Nefermandias

Adventurer
So I think the problem with that model is "Tough" actually has two aspects to it in 5e:
  • Ability to take lots of pain
  • Ability to reduce needed healing.
The fighter for example, is tough because of its high AC AND the fact that it gets a free heal every short rest. The paladin gets lots of healing. The barbarian can soak lots of damage by halving it with rage. Even the rogue can do a similar soak once per round.

The monk.... has none of that unless you take the Open Hand style. Its AC is not particularly great, but it also has no healing recovery. This means that a healing in a group with a monk is going to get tapped more than if they had a fighter.... monks are healing sponges.

So increasing the Monk HD to d10 does give it a little more toughness, and a little bit more recovery on a short rest...but they are still damage sponges in comparison to other front liners.


The two abilities I've been trying in my own homebrew lately:

1) Patient Defense: (remove bonus action) Spend 1 ki as a reaction to an attack or dex saving throw.
2) Meditation: A monk uses an action and begins concentrating, like on a spell. After 1 minute of concentrating, they regain hitpoints equal to their martial arts die + proficiency bonus. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to the monk's proficiency bonus.

The first gives the monk a solid AC when they need it (without spending KI just for the risk), and doesn't interfere with their offense. Meditation gives them more recovery so they aren't as reliant on secondary sources, but not in a way that clashes with the fighter or paladin, the healing is good but slow.
Don't forget that monks have Quickened Healing now.
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Honestly I think you could make a solid case for the Monk as a Rogue subclass.

Frankly Rogue's already have tons of the monk's core payload..... super fast with cunning action, able to deal extra damage through "weak spots", can become expert grapplers (expertise in athletics), able to soak damage through technique (uncanny dodge). At high levels blindsense and evasion.... all the meat is there.

If you had a rogue subclass that granted the unarmed damage and AC without armor, gave them some of the cool mobility stuff like walk on water, and maybe threw in a stunning strike on a sneak attack X times per day.... by gum I think you would have a pretty solid looking monk.
In 4e I noticed that too... you could even just make most of it accessible via a feat call it Martial Artist
 





Nefermandias

Adventurer
its not too bad if you use it during a short rest to burn all your remaining ki before regaining them at the end of the rest. But used actively during exploration or battle? Yeah, its pretty bad.
Yes, precisely. My group does a lot of overland travel (Storm King's Thunder) and we use gritty Realism, so every camp night in the wilderness is a short rest. Monk gets a lot of mileage from Quickened Healing.
 


A feature about fighting (includes healing) that only does reasonably if the intensity of fighting is low enough to have significant left over resources? Doesn't that kind of speak for its general utility? Or lack thereof.
yes, logically it does.

monk has a lot of problems of being a grab bag of ideas but has at least a basic definition, mystical martial artist.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Maybe I'd let Dodge be an action/ BA for 1 Ki, but give the monk an improved feature that replicate Deflect Missile but for melee attack within 5 ft.

This would let you Dodge as an action, and use your Reaction to reduce the damage if you want to and even spend 1 Ki to return the attack against the attacker, Aikido(?) style!

I'd go simpler and let a monk make one unarmed attack as a bonus action if they take the Dodge action. Or get a shield bonus as a bonus action.
 


A feature about fighting (includes healing) that only does reasonably if the intensity of fighting is low enough to have significant left over resources? Doesn't that kind of speak for its general utility? Or lack thereof.
No.
It is an added feature you get for free. The monks I have seen and played (up to 9th level) felt useful, even in a game where the dex based eldritch knight fighter had 21 AC and shield available...

The only problem was the frequency of rests. But everything went fine after we changed to more gritty realism.

And that was way beyond tasha.
I am looking forward to how they try to fix the healing system in 5.5. I hope they do a good job.
I however fear that the solution will just be removing recharges on short rests.
That will definitely change the monk class and warlock class the most.
 


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