D&D 5E Why do Monks only have d8 HP instead of d10 HP?

[Slit518]

I'm personally not a fan of the idea of the monk getting d10 hit die. They're not meant to be frontline tanks. They're not meant to get hit often at all. Rogues don't get d10s either.

I would say because Rogues don't train that hard in terms of taking physical damage or being physically reliant. They operate from the shadows without hopes of you knowing they were there. They rely on Sneak Attacks, catching someone unaware. Yes, they can be played toe-to-toe, but if you're a Burglar or a Thief or an Assassin for example, you don't want to charge up in the field of battle and fight with a fully armored Knight. Though, game wise it is unavoidable.

Where as Monks/Martial Artists for example would often train with limited to no gear to take on geared up opponents. Let's take the Taekkyon for example, an early Korean martial art used to take down armed Japanese opponents. Early Taekwondo with all of its kicks and splendor was used to take Warriors off of their horses. Thy came right into battle, empty handed, sometimes with farmer's tools as weapons, but trained to take on fully equipped soldiers.

Engage, Disarm, Neutralize.

 

[Horwath]

Same reason weapon table looks like it is now.

They were design mistakes.

 

[Cadence]

Wasn't the monk the class in PF 1e that got the biggest rewrite when it went unchained, among other things getting d10 and being more flexible with the attacks?

I am great with a d10 Ki (or inner power or whatnot) monk like character (by whatever name).

The one I'm not a fan of is someone who wants a brawler or non-mystical monk who is just as effective in most combat situations as the person with choice of armor, melee weapon, and missile weapon.

Why would anyone associate the Monk or Rogue with a frontline toe-to-toe Fighter?
Who creates this expectation as it doesn't exist in the inspirational literature (books, movies, etc) nor in the rules

Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I definitely find it harder to justify a 'sterotypical' monk in a vanilla medieval european aesthetic campaign. Maybe a christian aesthetic monk with the staff and tonsure? I do think the class name makes them stand out compared to the other classes.

I've basically removed all monk lore from the character I've got ready to go. They're an actor, entertainer, and dancer. And their skills come from that, rather than being an actual 'monk'.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Same reason weapon table looks like it is now.

They were design mistakes.

The more time I spend playing and talking about 5e, the more I realise that it's basically a bodge job which got lucky. And not a perfectly and elegantly designed system.

 

[Greg K]

I'm against that since what most Fighters do is Martial Arts too. Though they could have used Mystic for Monk, but it's been taken by more spellcasting related classes (Psion in 5e Alpha test, and a divine caster in 3e).

I agree FIghters do Martial Arts too. I never said that I would not let them do martial arts. My ideal martial artist class would be a light armored/no armored battlemaster type class that does Western Pugilists (their bouts often included rounds of swordsmanship, knife fighting, and clubs, in addition to many unarmed techniques prior to the developments that eventually lead to Queesnbury rules), , swashbuckling swordsmen, wuxia swordsmen, etc. in addition to what we think of martial artists (many styles include weapons training).
Fighters would also be able to learn unarmed techniques (although many of the battlemaster maneuvers can apply to unarmed as well)

 

[J.Quondam]

Why would anyone associate the Monk or Rogue with a frontline toe-to-toe Fighter?
Who creates this expectation as it doesn't exist in the inspirational literature (books, movies, etc) nor in the rules

But the "Shaolin warrior monk" is the fundamental trope, isn't it?
I could be misremembering, but I believe the story of the foundation of their monastic practice-- the martial arts, the meditation, the discipline, the body-hardening-- is all about learning to be tough warriors. They took that up because their monastery had been constantly ravaged by bandits and enemy soldiers. They had to learn to fight because they were isolated and no one was fighting their battles for them.

 

[bedir than]

Sshaolin warrior monks is the fundamental trope, isn't it?
I could be misremembering, but I believe the story of the foundation of their monastic practice-- the martial arts, the meditation, the discipline, the body-hardening-- is precisely about learning to be tough warriors. They took that up because their monastery had been constantly ravaged by bandits and enemy soldiers. They had to learn to fight because they were isolated and no one was fighting their battles for them.

Sure thing!

None of the myths around them are the trope of a static fighter (the inspiration for fighters and paladins both)

 

[Undrave]

I would suggest Monk have d10 HP, add their Proficiency Modifier to Armor Class if not wearing Armor, and start with d6 to their Unarmed Attacks.

And Flurry of Blow shouldn't cost Ki after a certain level.

I'm personally not a fan of the idea of the monk getting d10 hit die. They're not meant to be frontline tanks. They're not meant to get hit often at all. Rogues don't get d10s either.

The Rogue doesn't need to sacrifice Sneak Attack to Disengage as a bonus action.

Is the skill floor too high .... or is your skill too low?

Compared to any other class the Monk requires too much system mastery and a specific stat line to not get wasted by a single bad hit or bad roll.

Why would anyone associate the Monk or Rogue with a frontline toe-to-toe Fighter?
Who creates this expectation as it doesn't exist in the inspirational literature (books, movies, etc) nor in the rules

The 4e Rogue was a Striker capable of doing great damage while being slippery.

The Monk is a martial artist! Have you seen a kung fu hero way lay an entire room of minions by themselves?!

 

[J.Quondam]

Sure thing!

None of the myths around them are the trope of a static fighter (the inspiration for fighters and paladins both)

Ah, okay! I misunderstood your point.