D&D General why do we not have an arcane half caster?

[Mind of tempest]

No, Mr. Eldritch Knight, you do not.

I found myself frustrated with 5E’s lack of a true half-caster class, and ended up making my own. EldritchKnight, Bladesinger, and several more concepts became subclasses under it (including the chi warrior, for making a wuxia fighter and book of 9 swords-like characters).

I had some ideas for one written down somewhere and I am in a reasonable mood, should I post them?

 

[DEFCON 1]

The problem we have always had with the idea of an arcane half-caster is that no one (even people who have tried creating their own) has been able to come up with the most important part of the class-- its story.

That's why no arcane half-caster has ever survived or ingrained itself in the collective D&D consciousness to become an actual "thing"... no one has created a thematic story for the class that puts in on par with the ranger and the paladin. There hasn't been anything for this class to hang its hat on.

I mean, what are the stories of these three classes in D&D?

The paladin is a divine half-caster, but is also a knight, a templar, a holy warrior that swears to uphold certain ideals that society finds important. They are the champions and defenders of society.

The ranger is a primal half-caster, but also a wilderness warrior, a defender of the wilds, a champion of nature that moves swiftly through it to protect it from those that would use it for nefarious deeds.

The arcane half-caster? It's a fighter that casts spells.

Yep. That's it. That has always been the "story" that people have created for the arcane half-caster. That's what an eldritch knight is. That's what a swordmage was. That's all it's ever been. And that's why no one and no edition has ever stuck with it as a class. Because it has no story, no theme, nothing to give it any heft. Nothing to make it a CLASS rather than just a multiclass of two generic classes smushed together.

If we ever want to see an arcane half-caster be a thing and become an actual class that remains in the game... we need to all agree on what its story is. Who in medieval D&D society needs to be a warrior who casts wizard spells? What do they do? What is their duty in the world? What do they believe in and fight for? And whatever it is... it needs to be an actual specific type of person on par with the ranger and the paladin. One who theme is so strong that it can support multiple variants of its story that come into play via subclasses.

The fighter, rogue, cleric, and wizard are the only four classes that get away with being somewhat "generic". But the other eight have major story, lore, and fluff connected to them. Barbarians, bards, druids, monks, paladins, rangers, sorcerers, and warlocks are just covered in fluff, and that's why they've stayed in the game. Because they are specific archetypes that the game and its players have determined they WANT to have available, moreso than just making multiclasses.

Could the game work with just a fighter/cleric multiclass for their holy warrior archetype? Sure... but people want PALADINS.

Could the game work with just a fighter/druid multiclass for their wilderness defender? Sure... but people want RANGERS.

Could the game work with just a fighter/wizard multiclass? It always has. But if you want an actual class for it now... then we need to come up with WHAT IT IS.

 

[Parmandur]

Artificers aren't warriors though.

Have you looked at the 5E Artificer...?

 

[Parmandur]

it does not feel like one if it were turned in to a full caster only the mechanics would be different. it would feel the same.
an arcane gish would feel closer to ranger or paladin.

What? The Artificer in the rules is a half-caster who is combat proficient. That's what it is.

 

[TwoSix]

If the trope for an arcane half-caster was obvious, it would have been popularized by now. Since it's not, obviously coming up with a compelling trope is difficult.

What differentiates the arcane half-caster (AHC) from the paladin or ranger? Obviously, the main difference would need to be their spell list. What sort of spells feel "arcane" as opposed to what the ranger and paladin get? Blasty evocations? Force magic? Spatial/extradimensional magic? The fact that arcane magic in D&D is a fairly broad category makes nailing down the specialty of an AHC more difficult.

The best examples from existing media I can think of is The Witcher (one could also argue ranger for Geralt), and a host of JRPG hero types.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Ever single time I think about 5e, the first thing I think is ....

how does anyone play it given how few spellcasting options there are?

 

[Mind of tempest]

The problem we have always had with the idea of a arcane half-caster is that no one (even people who have tried creating their own) has been able to come up with the most important part of the class-- its story.

That's why no arcane half-caster has ever survived or ingrained itself in the collective D&D consciousness to become an actual "thing"... no one has created a thematic story for the class that puts in on par with the ranger and the paladin. There hasn't been anything for this class to hang its hat on.

I mean, what are the stories of these three classes in D&D?

The paladin is a divine half-caster, but is also a knight, a templar, a holy warrior that swears to uphold certain ideals that society finds important. They are the champions and defenders of society.

The ranger is a primal half-caster, but also a wilderness warrior, a defender of the wilds, a champion of nature that moves swiftly through it to protect it from those that would use it for nefarious deeds.

The arcane half-caster? It's a fighter that casts spells.

Yep. That's it. That has always been the "story" that people have created for the arcane half-caster. That's what an eldritch knight is. That's what a swordmage was. That's all it's ever been. And that's why no one and no edition has ever stuck with it as a class. Because it has no story, no theme, nothing to give it any heft. Nothing to make it a CLASS rather than just a multiclass of two generic classes smushed together.

If we ever want to see an arcane half-caster be a thing and become an actual class that remains in the game... we need to all agree on what its story is. Who in medieval D&D society needs to be a warrior who casts wizard spells? What do they do? What is their duty in the world? What do they believe in and fight for? And whatever it is... it needs to be an actual specific type of person on par with the ranger and the paladin. One who theme is so strong that it can support multiple variants of its story that come into play via subclasses.

The fighter, rogue, cleric, and wizard are the only four classes that get away with being somewhat "generic". But the other eight have major story, lore, and fluff connected to them. Barbarians, bards, druids, monks, paladins, rangers, sorcerers, and warlocks are just covered in fluff, and that's why they've stayed in the game. Because they are specific archetypes that the game and its players have determined they WANT to have available, moreso than just making multiclasses.

Could the game work with just a fighter/cleric multiclass for their holy warrior archetype? Sure... but people want PALADINS.

Could the game work with just a fighter/druid multiclass for their wilderness defender? Sure... but people want RANGERS.

Could the game work with just a fighter/wizard multiclass? It always has. But if you want an actual class for it now... then we need to come up with WHAT IT IS.

so what sort of things need a magic fighter and what societies would be making them?

we need places that value arcane magic a lot but also need muscle and violence?

do we have any real-world occupations that need both brains and brawn at the same time?

 

[Shadow Over Mystara]

The problem we have always had with the idea of a arcane half-caster is that no one (even people who have tried creating their own) has been able to come up with the most important part of the class-- its story.

Great point.

I love the idea of an arcane half-caster, but the flavor I keep coming back to is... a rogue. A jack-of-all-trades who has some skill with a blade, some skill with stealth, some skill with words, and who complements all that with some skill in magic. So basically somewhere between an arcane trickster and a bard.

Arcane magic is magic for those who don't ask. They either rip power from the fabric of reality through the sheer force of their minds (Wizards) or simply ARE magic (Sorcerers). An arcane half-caster would be similar thematically.

If it was up to me, I would bring back the Thief as the stealth specialist and sneak attack class, while keeping the Rogue as the arcane half-caster. Less spellcasting than the 5e Bard, but a better warrior.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Great point.

I love the idea of an arcane half-caster, but the flavor I keep coming back to is... a rogue. A jack-of-all-trades who has some skill with a blade, some skill with stealth, some skill with words, and who complements all that with some skill in magic. So basically somewhere between an arcane trickster and a bard.

Arcane magic is magic for those who don't ask. They either rip power from the fabric of reality through the sheer force of their minds (Wizards) or simply ARE magic (Sorcerers). An arcane half-caster would be similar thematically.

If it was up to me, I would bring back the Thief as the stealth specialist and sneak attack class, while keeping the Rogue as the arcane half-caster. Less spellcasting than the 5e Bard, but a better warrior.

I see your conclusion but you got stuck in the triangle you need the anti-rogue the reflection or shadow being cast.
plus stealth specialists need a generic word and rogue works to well for them to give it up.

 

[tetrasodium]

so what sort of things need a magic fighter and what societies would be making them?

we need places that value arcane magic a lot but also need muscle and violence?

do we have any real-world occupations that need both brains and brawn at the same time?

Eberron has aundairan knights arcane & aundairan knight's phantom plus 3.5wand adepts/5e wand slinger, not sure what 4e had. Also they had magewrights & dragonmark heirs(all with specific "races" & subraces in rising from the last war) who have a degree of innate spellcasting plus may or may not have a dragonmark focus item" for more

Someone else might have better details, but in darksun some of the elite forces under the various sorcerer kings may or may not have some degree of arcane spellcasting abilities either learned or directly granted by the individual SK they serve given the way arcane spellcasting is restricted there