Why do we want to multiclass?

[Raven Swords]

Ok let me try again:

My premise:
I believe that what many people want from multiclassing is for one character to be able to perform more than one Role. It doesnt necessarily mean they want the character to be as good at each Role as a single class character of that Role, but they want to be effective, nontheless.

I agree with you.

Multiclassing, as it stands, clearly ignores this desire, as it does little or nothing to allow the character to fulfill the secondary Role.

If you accept this premise, then the rules need some sort of major change that allows a character to perform the new Role with at least partial effectiveness, but without becoming strictly "more powerful".

Here I disagree, I think that the mechanics as given work fine they just failed to take the concept far enough. It seems to me that it would be easier to adapt and expand the existing rules than try to rewrite or invent new ones in this case.

Please limit yourself to helping develop these new rules. If you want to discuss the premise, or what multiclassing does/does not do, please start a branched thread.

I am sorry if I missed the original point of your post.

 

[RillianPA]

Here I disagree, I think that the mechanics as given work fine they just failed to take the concept far enough. It seems to me that it would be easier to adapt and expand the existing rules than try to rewrite or invent new ones in this case.

The easiest example, for me, is the Fighter Multiclass feat. The role of a Fighter (Defender) is to protect the other party members from attacks, whether he attracts the enemies to himself, prevents attacks or reduces damage. The only ability a multiclass Fighter character gets to aid in performing this Role, is the chance to mark one opponent, once per encounter, for 1 round. This is all but meaningless in my opinion.

Maybe our disagreement is one of semantics though. When I say major change, that could mean adapting/expanding the existing rules...but still in a major way. So if, for example, you mean that we should change the feat so that it grants something more like Combat Challenge (which I am not suggesting is a good solution necessarily) then we are basically talking about the same thing. I am, however, willing to consider any change that addresses my premise.

 

[Raven Swords]

How about a paragon feat that upgrades the original multi class feat granting full access to that power? I don't have the book here so can't judge the power levels..

 

[DreamChaser]

The easiest example, for me, is the Fighter Multiclass feat. The role of a Fighter (Defender) is to protect the other party members from attacks, whether he attracts the enemies to himself, prevents attacks or reduces damage. The only ability a multiclass Fighter character gets to aid in performing this Role, is the chance to mark one opponent, once per encounter, for 1 round. This is all but meaningless in my opinion.

Of course, the multiCLASS feats are not called multiROLE feats and I think this is intentional.

A fighter who takes the rogue feat does not become a striker nor a defender / striker. He becomes a defender who is able to utilize a few abilities associated with a striker character.

DC

 

[AkaKageWarrior]

The easiest example, for me, is the Fighter Multiclass feat. The role of a Fighter (Defender) is to protect the other party members from attacks, whether he attracts the enemies to himself, prevents attacks or reduces damage. The only ability a multiclass Fighter character gets to aid in performing this Role, is the chance to mark one opponent, once per encounter, for 1 round. This is all but meaningless in my opinion.

you are right, with that feat you won't get the major defending fighter ability.
but if that is your goal, than you should start with fighter and multi-class the other way.

after having seen so many useless, broken or crazy (I mean those with more than 3 classes) combos in 3e,
having seen 1e and 2e multi and dual classing, I'm quite happy with the 4e multi-classing.
you can pick some other classes' powers, and pretty powerful ones too.
you give up part of your main role, but you are still far from useless.
you can't fulfill the MC'd role fully, but can get very good at it, at the expense
of your primary class's powers, feats and paragon paths.
balanced, playable, fun => perfect for me.

and flavor? I think you can build almost anything, just add the right feats and skills.
although this multi-classing is limited, they somehow made it possible.
wanna play cleric/wizard/thief? works.
fighter/cleric/wizard? works. (based on battle cleric)
....

EDIT: I think this is as good as it can get with a class-based system.
I'd also like to see a classless D&D actually...

AKW