Why do you play games other than D&D?

[Umbran]

I don't disagree with you, in principle anyway. I supposed where I begin to disagree is with the notion that Brindlewood Bay is the latter rather than the former, which it plainly isn't (setting aside notions of whether it succeeds at that design task). I

I have not read or played Bindlewood Bay.

However, what has been described to me is - you go about and find clues. You then put together clues to make a theory - when your party has consensus on what theory they are going with, you roll to see if that theory is correct. If it is not, you gather more clues until you can put together a new theory.

That, if accurate, seems very much "telling the story of solving a mystery", in that there is no predetermined puzzle for the players to solve. The mechanics effectively decide whodunnit, without anyone knowing that before play began.

... but given that there are many, many, fans of BBay who think the mechanics work marvelously as a mystery game, and who experience wonderful fulfilling games with it

The number of people who have wonderful games with may indicate if it is a fun game, but it does not determine whether it is "solving a mystery" or "telling the story of solving a mystery," as I defined it above.

 

[Umbran]

I'm not a fan of the limited resource part. It feels gamey to me. Others are absolutely entitled to feel differently.

So, what I don't get is how, absent any real game mechanics around it, it can end up feeling "gamey". I would understand if you described that limit as, say, "arbitrary" or the like, but there... no real game-playing involved in that part of the overall game - that's in fact the design intent - to get rid of mechanics around finding clues!

So, yeah, I'm interested in why you say "gamey" as opposed to some other descriptor. How it is like a game?

 

[SableWyvern]

So, what I don't get is how, absent any real game mechanics around it, it can end up feeling "gamey". I would understand if you described that limit as, say, "arbitrary" or the like, but there... no real game-playing involved in that part of the overall game - that's in fact the design intent - to get rid of mechanics around finding clues!

So, yeah, I'm interested in why you say "gamey" as opposed to some other descriptor. How it is like a game?

It is a game mechanic, so I'm not sure why it needs to have other game mechanics around it in order to feel gamey. But, to summarise, I have a hard time visualising what the expenditure of the resource means in the gameworld, in a way that I'm satisfied with and which is consistent with the resource being limited and something that can run out.

Making a decision about whether to spend a resource now or later, worrying that the resource may run out, being unable to gain additional information once the resource runs out, all feels like I'm interacting with the mechanics, rather than the world.

I suppose another way to put it is that it feels like a metacurrency and I generally find that metacurrencies feel gamey.

That's about the best I think I can explain it. To be very clear, this isn't intended as any kind of objective judgement -- it's just about my subjective feelings. I'm not making any statements about the designer's intent, or whether they succeeded in their intent, or how anyone else should feel about the system.

 

[MGibster]

I reject the idea that Gumshoe's approach to investigation is "fancy".

The first time I read the rules I had a real "duh" moment. It was such an elegant solution to a problem I had had with many investigative games, Call of Cthulhu included.

If you have a skill, and think to use it in a place where a clue might be found... you find it.
If there's additional information, you can spend a point to get it.

And yet you're correct about it being utterly simple. Another thing I like about Gumshoe is you don't always even need the skill. If you tell the GM specifically you're pulling up the rug to see if anything is underneath then your character will discover the clue that's there.

Tacos are great -- probably one of the best foods ever -- but it can't encompass everything.

I'm every taco/
It's all in me/
Anything you want done, baby/
I'll do it naturally/
I'm every taco/
It's all in me/
I can your thoughts right now/
Every food from A to Z/
Whoa, whoa, whoa

It is a game mechanic, so I'm not sure why it needs to have other game mechanics around it in order to feel gamey. But, to summarise, I have a hard time visualising what the expenditure of the resource means in the gameworld, in a way that I'm satisfied with and which is consistent with the resource being limited and something that can run out.

Gumshoe is a system that isn't particularly concerned with what resources means in the game world. If that's your bag, then I can certainly see why Gumshoe isn't the system for you. Resource management is there because it increases tension. Do I spend some points from Architect to get additional, useful information? If I spend a point now now, then when I find another another clue in another scene I won't have any points left for additional, useful information.