D&D General Why Do You Think Wizards Are Boring?

[Vaalingrade]

Wizards are their own boss: They get their powers through hard work and study, not by begging, borrowing or stealing.

I'd say that makes them even worse, like everyone else that think they're 'self made' while ignoring the many, many others who got them where they are.

 

[Tutara]

I'd say that makes them even worse, like everyone else that think they're 'self made' while ignoring the many, many others who got them where they are.

The wizards in the games I have played were luckily excellent team players and thankfully bore no resemblance to an evil corporate bad guy from an 80's Christmas movie. It is easier to criticize the movie guy rather than the RPG class, though.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I dunno, I'm finding it real easy to criticize the class. Like fish in a barrel with a nuke easy.

 

[deganawida]

Wizards used to be cool and scarily obsessed with studying forbidden magic and lore. And then we advanced in editions and they became more like technicians selecting which tool works best for the job. They lost their flavor and became technocratic professionals instead of obsessed, slightly terrifying loners.

Yeah, in B/X, didn’t they have to research, find, or trade for spells? You never had a guarantee on what spell you would get, and started with a random one.

 

[Incenjucar]

Finding a spellbook was a pretty huge deal. Spells also used to get really weird and fun since you didn't have infinite cantrip spam. There was a bubble bath spell.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Honest question here. Does anyone else feel like the casters eat too much table time? Or is this just me?

At my table I will make you wait until after the next turn if you take long enough that I see people looking at phones or cross talk picking up or I just get bored waiting.

Figure it out.

I also am not picky or pedantic about the letter of the rules, so they don’t need to place the fireball exactly to not nuke the party. If fireball is really your best option against one humanoid enemy, yes you can put the nadir of the sphere on thier dome and only someone within 5 ft of them and at least as tall as them needs to rethink thier position.

But yeah mostly it just isn’t an issue in my group. I often find fighters taking more time to resolve their several attacks, action surge, and second wind, especially Battlemasters. The improvisationalists take up more table time, but it’s usually fun for everyone.

 

[jmartkdr2]

I didn't find my wizard (played from about 10-20) boring except for a couple points:

1. If I cared more about optimization, the spell list gets a lot smaller, quickly. It's not hard to find the best spells at each level, and it's only a couple. The game I was in did not require optimization, and in fact rewarded using spells in interesting or thematic ways, so it wasn't an issue - but not all games are like that and a dm who doesn't go out of there way to reward thematic play will end up rewarding the obviously best choice.

2. Simulacrum is broken as all get-out. For reals, I stopped using it because it made the game boring because I could actually spam the "I win" button." Without this one broken spell, the other encounter-breaking spells are all high-level slots so you don't get to use them every time.

 

[jmartkdr2]

1. Eating WAY too much time. Everyone else finishes their turn in a minute or two. Then the game grinds to a halt while the caster player screws around with placing fifteen different area effects in just the right place only to end the turn with a fire bolt.

I played on roll20, where everyone can see when you start using the ruler tool, and the dm once commented "It isn't a fight until Aandhee starts measuring things." I did try to do all my measuring before my turn so I would already know where to move and where to place effects, but sometimes the turn just before mine messes it up.

(FWIW, I wouldn't mind a game with no full casters. They can easily overwhelm things in various ways.)

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Finding a spellbook was a pretty huge deal.

Frankly, I think this is one of the biggest problems. Finding a spell book meant a guaranteed surge in versatility, and a nigh-guaranteed surge in power. Literally no one else can match that; a Fighter getting a cool new sword can stab somewhat more effectively than before, or maybe fly or something. A Wizard finding a new spell book is transformed, especially if there are even a couple good spells in it. Doubly so in Ye Olden Dayse, when spells were often allowed to be brazenly OP.

So long as any one class can upend the game that way, where a single treasure can take one from feeble to forceful, weak to wonder-working, you have this problem. "Geek the mage," as Shadowrun puts it. Don't bother with the chromed-up street sam in your face (just run away) or her rigger-sniper friend sighting you from across the parking lot (just use cover), because they can be dealt with later. Kill the guy who can break the laws of physics first, almost always.

Spells also used to get really weird and fun since you didn't have infinite cantrip spam. There was a bubble bath spell.

I don't see the connection between these ideas. If anything, it seems the reverse. When you only have 10 spells a day at absolute maximum, you cannot afford to spare one for a bubble bath. All of them need to be good spells worth their keep. With what you derisively call "cantrip spam," you can afford to "waste" spells on something esoteric or weird.

 

[Incenjucar]

Frankly, I think this is one of the biggest problems. Finding a spell book meant a guaranteed surge in versatility, and a nigh-guaranteed surge in power. Literally no one else can match that; a Fighter getting a cool new sword can stab somewhat more effectively than before, or maybe fly or something. A Wizard finding a new spell book is transformed, especially if there are even a couple good spells in it. Doubly so in Ye Olden Dayse, when spells were often allowed to be brazenly OP.

So long as any one class can upend the game that way, where a single treasure can take one from feeble to forceful, weak to wonder-working, you have this problem. "Geek the mage," as Shadowrun puts it. Don't bother with the chromed-up street sam in your face (just run away) or her rigger-sniper friend sighting you from across the parking lot (just use cover), because they can be dealt with later. Kill the guy who can break the laws of physics first, almost always.


I don't see the connection between these ideas. If anything, it seems the reverse. When you only have 10 spells a day at absolute maximum, you cannot afford to spare one for a bubble bath. All of them need to be good spells worth their keep. With what you derisively call "cantrip spam," you can afford to "waste" spells on something esoteric or weird.

2E wizards had more spells since they didn't have scaling cantrips they could spam. They also didn't have a bunch if reaction stuff, so they were only belting out so many spells per combat.