D&D General Why Do You Think Wizards Are Boring?

[Ruin Explorer]

I mean, it would be, if Wizards ever actually DID nerd things. But they don't, which is a big part of why Wizards are boring.

Yeah wizard used to be giant nerds and it was kind of part of their deal, all that scribing scrolls and identifying items and making magic items and golems and living in towers and getting crammed in lockers by magic-immune barbarians. But that's all gone now, even the magic-immune barbarians.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Fork 'em out into a Guild Wars style "mesmer" class.

Ew, no. Beguilers are great, but they're a different experience (less-horny bards, really) than illusionists.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Ew, no. Beguilers are great, but they're a different experience (less-horny bards, really) than illusionists.

To be fair classes like that should probably be folded into Bards. It's a whole other archetype from wizard.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

To be fair classes like that should probably be folded into Bards. It's a whole other archetype from wizard.

Horny + nerdy just gives us the characters from the Big Bang Theory, and no one wants that.

 

[Vaalingrade]

This is illusionist erasure. That's illusionists' job, pal!

They're called 'Bards'. Just like enchanters

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Ew, no. Beguilers are great, but they're a different experience (less-horny bards, really) than illusionists.

I...don't really understand what "illusionist" is outside of that then. The idea was already that we were combining spell schools together (e.g. the "conjurer" contains Conjurer, Evoker, and Necromancer, the "spellweaver" contains Transmuter and Abjurer), and the two schools that are most apt to being put in the same class are pretty obviously Illusion and Enchantment. If you have one class doing both Illusion and Enchantment, I'm not really sure how it isn't extremely similar to the GW2 mesmer. Especially if that's also where you put Diviner.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I...don't really understand what "illusionist" is outside of that then. The idea was already that we were combining spell schools together (e.g. the "conjurer" contains Conjurer, Evoker, and Necromancer, the "spellweaver" contains Transmuter and Abjurer), and the two schools that are most apt to being put in the same class are pretty obviously Illusion and Enchantment. If you have one class doing both Illusion and Enchantment, I'm not really sure how it isn't extremely similar to the GW2 mesmer. Especially if that's also where you put Diviner.

This is quite the logical rollercoaster ride.

Illusionists predate about half the classes in the game. They were created, pre-1E, as a distinct class with their own sets of spells separate from the magic-user, including the new category of shadow magic.

Jumping from there to "well, obviously they should be combined with the enchanter and therefore should be just like the class in an entirely different game" is a big leap. Beguilers, enchanters and bards do something different than the classical illusionist does.

In any case, my original joke was that they weren't mentioned at all, hence the "erasure."

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

They're called 'Bards'. Just like enchanters

Nah. They fulfill a different role in the fantasy world. You're not going to wander through the forest and suddenly find a magical palace that shouldn't be there, filled with beautiful and charming -- if strangely distant -- servants, and have it be the home of a bard (as we know them in D&D).

 

[DEFCON 1]

Wizards are only boring when then player playing it doesn't give the character an interesting or compelling personality (with relationships, emotions, flaws, beliefs etc.) and instead just treats the thing like a big bunch of game mechanics to cycle through.

Of course, that's true of every single class in the game. Uncreative players make for boring characters.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Nah. They fulfill a different role in the fantasy world. You're not going to wander through the forest and suddenly find a magical palace that shouldn't be there, filled with beautiful and charming -- if strangely distant -- servants, and have it be the home of a bard (as we know them in D&D).

A bard or a fey. Same thing, honestly.