Vaalingrade
Legend
Pretty much.Aren't 1 and 2 afterthoughts added to make people who want "zero to hero" happy?
Pretty much.Aren't 1 and 2 afterthoughts added to make people who want "zero to hero" happy?
I mean, that's just a question of setting right?Sometimes I want the journey to be part of the challenge. If I don't I'll just narrate it. I want the option.
There are narrative reasons as well. Basically I don't want players expecting to be able to snap their fingers to have a chat with their homie Odin by casting plane shift.
Can you think of a rules system that makes epic-play easier for the DM that doesn't "suck all the fun out of the game"?By Game design the character can do anything the DM can imagine, and will allow. Having a rule for everything would take away half the fun. Some players get so into thier characters they want to play them to some pinnacle. I've got npc's in my world that were former players. Even a few that have joined pantheons.
Every attempt I've seen to publish "epic" level rules turns into a highspeed railroad to make it easier for the DM and at the same time sucks all the fun out of the game. zKind've like the monster manual, spell books, and magical item's lists. known is boring. uknown is cool. that is never going to change.
I know you didn't ask me, but maybe a Superhero system?Can you think of a rules system that makes epic-play easier for the DM that doesn't "suck all the fun out of the game"?
Chinese Fantasy (the crazy stuff, not Wuxia) has a solution to this.I think this is the storytelling problem. You need to run 4 consecutive Endgames, not just one, to get from 16 to 20,
I feel like defining people entirely by one job is a little sketch...If people wanted to not-adventure they wouldn't have become adventurers.
So start a new campaign then. If the game ended adventuring at 10-11 (with the occasional exception) we wouldn't have these issues.
I don't think you necessarily have to do planar adventures at high level. there are plenty of other possibilities. But what I do think you need to do if you are still going to "adventure" at that level is a) make it epic, and b) make it player driven. The PCs decide to kill a god. The PCs decide to destroy an evil artifact. The PCs decide to conquer a nation. The PCs decide go back in time and fix their greatest mistake. Player driven games are always a good idea but I think they are essential to epic level play.It seems like 5e is a game that doesn't support level 13+ for a variety of reasons. So when they release a revised edition of the game, it seems logical to either 1) cut those levels out, and maybe put them in an Advanced PHB or 2) provide "support" for them, with support meaning a game that affords both high level planar adventuring and a faction/strongholds/intrigue/warfare game. What doesn't seem logical is to keep it as it is, with high level content being represented by things like "improved divine smite" and various game-breaking spells.
It's the players who want to continue to adventure. Their characters might be happy to settle down and run a small tea shop.They adventured when it suited them to adventure, they aren't cursed or honor bound to Adventure the rest of their lives.
It's mostly just personal preference and setting. My cosmology is loosely based on Norse lore, with the planes being different realms on the tree Yggdrasil. To get to Asgard you have to cross the bifrost bridge. , to get from one realm you have to travel through specific portals and doorways. It was just my way of having options because "I cast plane shift" or "I teleport" can be boring. I want the option to make the journey as interesting as the destination if it makes for a good story.I mean, that's just a question of setting right?
Surely Odin's palace is going to have wards against any form of uninvited teleportation, so at most they're going to be planeshifting just outside the front gate and have to submit a petition to see him or try their luck at barging through his warriors.
Just curious... Do you apply the same requirements to Odin himself?It's mostly just personal preference and setting. My cosmology is loosely based on Norse lore, with the planes being different realms on the tree Yggdrasil. To get to Asgard you have to cross the bifrost bridge. , to get from one realm you have to travel through specific portals and doorways. It was just my way of having options because "I cast plane shift" or "I teleport" can be boring. I want the option to make the journey as interesting as the destination if it makes for a good story.
Gods don't have to follow the same rules as mere mortals.Just curious... Do you apply the same requirements to Odin himself?
Does he have to use the Bifrost if he feels like visiting other planes?
True.Gods don't have to follow the same rules as mere mortals.However if you read Norse mythology there are a lot of stories of, for example, the gods having a wall built around Asgard. Or Thor travelling around visiting and having adventures. So I wanted to kind of reflect that.
Yeah, the gods in my campaigns are distant and mysterious. You might interact with a Valkyrie or Einherjar, but that's as close as you're going to get unless you're dead.True.
In my own campaigns PCs stop being pure mortals at level 13 and my Odin is just level 20, but that's just me lol. I know my takes are the odd one out.
But it’s fun for me to make monsters and encounters.Can you think of a rules system that makes epic-play easier for the DM that doesn't "suck all the fun out of the game"?
Time crunches are also a very important lever. Save the world…no problem! Save the world in an hour…now it’s a challengeI don't think you necessarily have to do planar adventures at high level. there are plenty of other possibilities. But what I do think you need to do if you are still going to "adventure" at that level is a) make it epic, and b) make it player driven. The PCs decide to kill a god. The PCs decide to destroy an evil artifact. The PCs decide to conquer a nation. The PCs decide go back in time and fix their greatest mistake. Player driven games are always a good idea but I think they are essential to epic level play.
I find it funny how in 3e, the official Odin had an ECL of 60 without counting Divine Abilities.True.
In my own campaigns PCs stop being pure mortals at level 13 and my Odin is just level 20, but that's just me lol. I know my takes are the odd one out.
I agree. Now excuse me while figure out how to use mob rules for tarrasques that have a contingent of beholder allies.I find it funny how in 3e, the official Odin had an ECL of 60 without counting Divine Abilities.
It makes it really jarring when people actually as though you become invincible at Level 15. That just tells me that the DMs aren’t trying enough imo.