D&D 5E Why does WotC put obviously bad or illogical elements in their adventures?

[Demetrios1453]

Sure, a generic set of an 'awful lot of problems', but these aren't dealing with a generic set of problems, they're dealing with a set of problems that can threaten storm giants. Plus, the description of the guards says they are "exceedingly stupid" and that they will fall for even simple ruses if the character passes a Charisma (Deception) check versus the giant's Wisdom (Insight), which is -1. Further, there's an actual error in the stat block for Tug and Cog, but it's the same one from the MM, so....

So, watching tonight's episode of Game of Thrones, they virtually re-enacted the entire scenario so closely that WotC might actually have grounds to sue. A female regent for an absent monarch has left two inept and foolish guards in charge of the main entrance, even though her stronghold faces several existential threats and crises, all the while entertaining potentially dangerous nobles who have recently overthrown the established order. Said foolish guards allow themselves to be fast-talked by someone to allow that person access to the female regent, and, moreover, they ineptly lose track of that person within well under a minute. Honestly, the only substantial difference is that the characters on GoT are humans instead of giants.

I assume that you are even now furiously penning strongly worded letters to the producers of Game of Thrones, George RR Martin, and HBO, informing of the lack of logic in such a scenario, as well as upbraiding them for allowing it to be broadcast.

 

[Hussar]

Ok, so, let's take [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION] as being right.

What would actually constitute "effective" guards against something(s) that can outright kill a storm giant? After all, the queen is dead and the king was abducted. IOW, the perpetrators here are VERY powerful. So, what would you actually put here on guard duty? Dozens of storm giants? Do they even have a dozen storm giants available to stand outside a door for hours on end?

What would you consider to be "logical" door guards, [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION]? What would be reasonable to you?

 

[MichaelSomething]

I see someone is commenting without knowing the context:

The Storm Giant king has been abducted, the Queen is dead, the ordening is broken and all the giant races are on a power struggle for control. This makes the long winded explanation above not applicable and exposed the core reason hill giant guards aren't logical on its face.

So everyone here spent hundred of posts arguing why dumb guard were guarding Royalty that wasn't actually there???

I have never felt this salty before.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Ok, so, let's take [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION] as being right.

What would actually constitute "effective" guards against something(s) that can outright kill a storm giant? After all, the queen is dead and the king was abducted. IOW, the perpetrators here are VERY powerful. So, what would you actually put here on guard duty? Dozens of storm giants? Do they even have a dozen storm giants available to stand outside a door for hours on end?

What would you consider to be "logical" door guards, [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION]? What would be reasonable to you?

There you go with strawmen, again. Never said "outright kill" I said "threaten". And 2 storm giants for guards would be very appropriate, given that the two sisters that dont sit the throne have storm giant guards.

 

[Ovinomancer]

So everyone here spent hundred of posts arguing why dumb guard were guarding Royalty that wasn't actually there???

I have never felt this salty before.

Pithy attempt, but, no, there's the daughters of the King (3 of them), one of whom is currently on the throne while the other two plot to take it for themselves. So, yeah, trying to deliver a cutting comment when you're shooting blind has a high probably of failure, as evidenced here.

 

[shoak1]

"The Hill Giants sent their 'elite' guards again."

"Oh fantastic."

"Yeah, and it'll cause another diplomatic uproar if we put them on kitchen duty again, sire, but don't worry...I have a plan."

"Sure. Let me hear it."

"I can send them to guard the outermost doors. We're not hearing of any hostile activity right now, so it's a cake job. They stand outside, together, where they don't bother the rest of us."

"I like it so far. Go on."

"Even if something does happen - which I highly doubt - we'll have enough other capable warriors inside that should be able to easily finish off whatever they soften up. We won't risk any real Giant blood in the process, and the Hill Giants will get a big flowery certificate - written by me, Your Majesty, all you have to do is sign it - that they can put on their wall as bragging rights. You know how much the tiniest little notice from us does to their morale."

"Mmm, clever."

"The best part, your Majesty, is they stay outside, so they don't ... um ... pardon your majesty, but there is no delicate way to put this-"

"Just say it, I come from military stock, you can't offend me."

"Thank you, majesty. They won't stink up the hall with their atrocious body odor. The last feast, nobody within ten spans could even eat. And we had to burn the pelts they sat on. The others will be...grateful."

"Excellent thinking. Make it so."

--

Everyone here with their serious games with elite guards can keep their games.

I like some whimsy, opportunities to explain why a single small band of small humanoids can defeat a far superior force, and creating 'fatal flaws' in the plans of would-be conquerers. There's a reason lists like 'If I Was An Evil Overlord' exist, and it's great fun to go through that and put a few of those exploitable flaws into adventures.

If the Bad Guys™ were really always that smart and together, then they'd win. Hubris, incompetence, overthinking, doubting the wise words of smarter underlings...these are all the unmaking of a BBEG.

For this post I give (wait for it......).....the Slow Clap (Slow Clap ensues).

 

[schnee]

There you go with strawmen, again. Never said "outright kill" I said "threaten". And 2 storm giants for guards would be very appropriate, given that the two sisters that dont sit the throne have storm giant guards.

Pithy attempt, but, no, there's the daughters of the King (3 of them), one of whom is currently on the throne while the other two plot to take it for themselves. So, yeah, trying to deliver a cutting comment when you're shooting blind has a high probably of failure, as evidenced here.

As you typed these, did a monocle fall dramatically out of your eye?

Or did you harrumph and blow a cloud of pipe smoke?

Or perhaps, did you click 'Post Quick Reply' then sweep out of the room, velvet cloak trailing with a flourish?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[robus]

As you typed these, did a monocle fall dramatically out of your eye?

Or did you harrumph and blow a cloud of pipe smoke?

Or perhaps, did you click 'Post Quick Reply' then sweep out of the room, velvet cloak trailing with a flourish?

Inquiring minds want to know.

The fundamental question is why is the greater context being ignored in this encounter? The Queen is dead, the Kind is missing there's an untested regent sitting on the thrown and Uthor (the regent's trusted lieutenant) is OK with a pair of stupid hill giants?

We're going around in circles

My confusion is rooted in the fact that WotC builds adventures as dramatic events in motion and then undermines that construction with encounters that fly in the face of the reality of the situation. To what end? Why go to the trouble of building a dramatic situation if you're not going to adequately support it?

 

[Ovinomancer]

As you typed these, did a monocle fall dramatically out of your eye?

Or did you harrumph and blow a cloud of pipe smoke?

Or perhaps, did you click 'Post Quick Reply' then sweep out of the room, velvet cloak trailing with a flourish?

Inquiring minds want to know.

None of the above, but you can rewrite the facts so that any or all of these are true, and then there's not a problem, right?

 

[Ovinomancer]

The fundamental question is why is the greater context being ignored in this encounter? The Queen is dead, the Kind is missing there's an untested regent sitting on the thrown and Uthor (the regent's trusted lieutenant) is OK with a pair of stupid hill giants?

We're going around in circles

My confusion is rooted in the fact that WotC builds adventures as dramatic events in motion and then undermines that construction with encounters that fly in the face of the reality of the situation. To what end? Why go to the trouble of building a dramatic situation if you're not going to adequately support it?

Aside from the hill giant guards, the Storm Giant keep has another glaring issue: it's entirely static as written. After you get such a dynamic description of the other giant strongholds, with different statuses depending on time of day, alert status, etc., the Maelstrom is written with a precise set of circumstances presented and lacks the real ability to shift into other stances -- there aren't enough guards to do anything other than maintain the current rotation, for instance, the encounters are written so that you have to encounter the sisters performing for the other visiting lords. Heck, those lords are only mentioned in this encounter -- what are they doing in the wider world to advance their status?

The giant strongholds prior to the Maelstrom are pretty well done, but then the Maelstrom drops back into a static, set piece encounter. The hill giant twins, while an example of poor design in and of themselves, are really among the least of issues with the Maelstrom.