Why don't you buy non-WoTC stuff?
- Thread starter MEG Hal
- Start date
hellbender
First Post
uv23 said:
I wouldn't say shallow at all. Art is a matter of taste in what you want in a product. Art is also subjective. One of the biggest downfalls of the rpg industry is the fact that rpg art doesn't pay very well, and this is rather irrational, as art in an rpg product is a form of advertising, and art in the advertising spectrum pays very well. And the contracts some companies have are totally ludicrous, especially considering the pay scale. I do want to stress the word *some* here, There are many good and fair companies out there that work with artists and pay well. And there are some companies that I feel accept art as a necessary evil and in return, get what they pay for.
This creates an industry of good artists who work for many companies to make ends meet, excellent artists taking the work they want or becoming staff artists, and people breaking in who are willing to take any work at any pay.
Mercule
Adventurer
Tsyr said:
Heh, I know this is a bit old, but I'll weigh in anyway. I generally prefer hardbound. They look better, feel better, and last longer.
Not everything should be hardbound. "Sword and Fist" probably shouldn't have been. On the other hand, I probably wouldn't have bought "Deities and Demigods" if it had been soft-bound. Or Psi-handbook, or maybe ELH.
I don't have even a guideline to offer on what I think should or shouldn't be hardbound. Just that I generally prefer hardbound to softbound.
JohnNephew,
No, I hadn’t seen Seven Cities, and from reading the description it seems to be the type of product that I was talking about. I will definitely be on the lookout for it at the local game store and check it out.
Not to hijack the thread here, and please keep in mind the only thing I know for sure about the product is what I read on the web page, it seems to be as much of a “City Builder’s Guide” as it does a collection of towns, villages, etc. If this is the case, can I ask a question? Of the 144 pages, how much is dedicated to the actual town descriptions, and how much is dedicated to “reference book” material? I haven’t looked at Seven Cities, and I am not passing judgment on it, but the more town descriptions and the less “how-to” material it contains, the more value it would have for me personally.
It seems to me that there is a tendency among d20 publishers to try to turn everything they publish into “reference book”, whether or not the subject even warrants such treatment. Perhaps it was WoTC statements (or the d20 companies’ own market research) on how source books make more money than adventure module type products that contributed to this. I could be wrong, of course. It just seems that way when I look at books such as the Quintessential series, or the Slayer’s Guide To series, or the Canting Crew, etc. all lined up on the shelf at the game store. Not to say these are bad products, I am just using them as an illustration.
Also, on the odd chance that anyone besides Ranes like my village book idea and want to steal it, go right ahead.
The sooner d20 companies produce more stuff like that the happier I will be. I just ask you put a small dedication to me near the front. Here are few more products I could use, so get crackin’!
1. A book of generic random encounter tables including complete stat blocks for the monsters/caravans/ etc. Include the treasure they are carrying, how close they are to their lair when encountered (and how much treasure they have there as well), some plot hooks for some of them as well (i.e., what were those orcs up to when they unfortunately ran into the PCs). Include multiple encounter tables for various types terrain (say five to 10 each for forests, mountains, plains, hills, civilized areas, etc.). That way I can choose which ones I want to use.
2. Generic dungeons/lairs: Think uncompleted module. Have maps, include the monsters, treasure, etc., and possibly even leave some rooms undefined. I can take that and flesh it out much easier that I can try to correct some completely finished piece of work that is based on a premise that just doesn’t work in my campaign. (Generic Goblin Caves, Generic Mind Flayer Lair, etc.)
3. More villages, more towns, more cities, but please make them generic (i.e., don’t plaster the name of the city all over the city map, etc.). I can’t stress this enough, generic, generic, generic. Why is this so important? I will give you an example. If I am looking for a city to use for Dyvers in my Greyhawk campaign, any map depicting a city on the south side of a large river will do. However, it says “City of Oaksheild” all over it, or if the accompanying text is so chock full of cutesy stuff that I have to re-do large amounts of it, it kinds of spoils it.
Finally, as I said earlier in this thread, make it easy for me to change the text, and I will be one loyal customer.
I could see where many people might find this all rather bland and or nit-picky, but remember, I am talking about what kind of products that d20 publishers could produce that I would want to buy. I am not going to buy Bulffside to represent Dyvers, or Rel Mord, or what have you. Bluffside may be a great city book, but it isn’t Dyvers. I want a product called “Large City on the South Side of a Large River” that tells me where the temple district is, where the wizard guild is. How many blacksmiths are there, what are their names, and where are they located, and their stat blocks are. I want someone to do the grunt work and make it easy for me to add the details. For this service, I give them money
I can take “Large City on the South Side of a Large River” and turn into Dyvers. Some else can take it and turn it whatever city they want. I believe that such things would have very broad appeal to home brewers, and published campaign players alike.
Or, I could be wrong. Thanks for listening to me prattle.
No, I hadn’t seen Seven Cities, and from reading the description it seems to be the type of product that I was talking about. I will definitely be on the lookout for it at the local game store and check it out.
Not to hijack the thread here, and please keep in mind the only thing I know for sure about the product is what I read on the web page, it seems to be as much of a “City Builder’s Guide” as it does a collection of towns, villages, etc. If this is the case, can I ask a question? Of the 144 pages, how much is dedicated to the actual town descriptions, and how much is dedicated to “reference book” material? I haven’t looked at Seven Cities, and I am not passing judgment on it, but the more town descriptions and the less “how-to” material it contains, the more value it would have for me personally.
It seems to me that there is a tendency among d20 publishers to try to turn everything they publish into “reference book”, whether or not the subject even warrants such treatment. Perhaps it was WoTC statements (or the d20 companies’ own market research) on how source books make more money than adventure module type products that contributed to this. I could be wrong, of course. It just seems that way when I look at books such as the Quintessential series, or the Slayer’s Guide To series, or the Canting Crew, etc. all lined up on the shelf at the game store. Not to say these are bad products, I am just using them as an illustration.
Also, on the odd chance that anyone besides Ranes like my village book idea and want to steal it, go right ahead.
The sooner d20 companies produce more stuff like that the happier I will be. I just ask you put a small dedication to me near the front. Here are few more products I could use, so get crackin’! 1. A book of generic random encounter tables including complete stat blocks for the monsters/caravans/ etc. Include the treasure they are carrying, how close they are to their lair when encountered (and how much treasure they have there as well), some plot hooks for some of them as well (i.e., what were those orcs up to when they unfortunately ran into the PCs). Include multiple encounter tables for various types terrain (say five to 10 each for forests, mountains, plains, hills, civilized areas, etc.). That way I can choose which ones I want to use.
2. Generic dungeons/lairs: Think uncompleted module. Have maps, include the monsters, treasure, etc., and possibly even leave some rooms undefined. I can take that and flesh it out much easier that I can try to correct some completely finished piece of work that is based on a premise that just doesn’t work in my campaign. (Generic Goblin Caves, Generic Mind Flayer Lair, etc.)
3. More villages, more towns, more cities, but please make them generic (i.e., don’t plaster the name of the city all over the city map, etc.). I can’t stress this enough, generic, generic, generic. Why is this so important? I will give you an example. If I am looking for a city to use for Dyvers in my Greyhawk campaign, any map depicting a city on the south side of a large river will do. However, it says “City of Oaksheild” all over it, or if the accompanying text is so chock full of cutesy stuff that I have to re-do large amounts of it, it kinds of spoils it.
Finally, as I said earlier in this thread, make it easy for me to change the text, and I will be one loyal customer.
I could see where many people might find this all rather bland and or nit-picky, but remember, I am talking about what kind of products that d20 publishers could produce that I would want to buy. I am not going to buy Bulffside to represent Dyvers, or Rel Mord, or what have you. Bluffside may be a great city book, but it isn’t Dyvers. I want a product called “Large City on the South Side of a Large River” that tells me where the temple district is, where the wizard guild is. How many blacksmiths are there, what are their names, and where are they located, and their stat blocks are. I want someone to do the grunt work and make it easy for me to add the details. For this service, I give them money
I can take “Large City on the South Side of a Large River” and turn into Dyvers. Some else can take it and turn it whatever city they want. I believe that such things would have very broad appeal to home brewers, and published campaign players alike.
Or, I could be wrong.
Thanks for listening to me prattle.For my 2 cents, give me locations. I don't mind adventures one way or another, but a detailed location be it a geograpical area like a desert or a city, that is what I would like. Give me descriptions, give me inhabatants, give me plot hooks that I can use or twist to my needs and I will be happy. Just don't tie it to a particular setting.
As for what I buy, nice covers will attract my eye, but I usually only buy stuff by authors that I know.
As for what I buy, nice covers will attract my eye, but I usually only buy stuff by authors that I know.
thundershot
Adventurer
As I don't have time to write them, I use modules exclusively. However, I do tweak them a bit to fit my campaign, but doesn't everyone?
The ones put out by Kenzer are among the best on the market, and as much flak they get for them, those little AEG "Adventure Keep" modules are great for having the bare bones. Just add some more ingredients, and they work out pretty well.
Chris
The ones put out by Kenzer are among the best on the market, and as much flak they get for them, those little AEG "Adventure Keep" modules are great for having the bare bones. Just add some more ingredients, and they work out pretty well.
Chris
JohnNephew
First Post
Buttercup said:
Thanks for the compliments.
At the moment we don't have plans for another book of cities. We will, however, be continuing the series with other types of things -- the next will be a collection of holy places, sometime in 2003. (Probably early in the year, since the manuscript is already written. But then, we have a bunch of already-written manuscripts in the queue...)
Similar Threads
