Why don't you buy non-WoTC stuff?

[uv23]

I'm with those who say that art is a big factor. I own a lot of non-WOTC d20 product but I might own a lot more if it wasn't for the crap that passes as cover and interior art in them. Is this shallow? Maybe, but presentation is important and its just as important for me to have visual cues for my material as it is to have text information. I'd say of the third party stuff out there, only 5% has passable art and of that, an even smaller percentage is actually good or great.

 

[der_kluge]

So, I'm curious, I've seen some stuff on here concerning modules. Do people still purchase modules? I know that a majority of the D20 community has moved away from modules for the time being, but these things are probably cyclical, if I were a betting man.

My vibe is that most people write their own modules. I personally, have never ran a pre-published module all the way through. I've used pieces of a few, but only exceedingly rarely. What's the general consensu, more modules? Or more DM-toolkiit-type stuff?

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I've noticed an inconsitency in your logic.

Your original statement was: "WotC puts out better stuff."

No. My original statement was:

It now seems to be: "all the WotC stuff I have purchased has been good."

This may well be true, but they are not one and the same.

I would agree. That's why I didn't make that claim.

Just because you haven't purchased a bad WotC book doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And it also indicates that you do exercise some discretion in deciding what to buy, which is an admirable trait among gamers. My own shelves are full of things I would rather not have bought. Heh. Go fig.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that the WoTC products that I have purchased are as good as advertised, IMO. The 3rd party products I purchased fell short of my expectations too many times.

Just because you have no use for a book (like Spyrcraft) doesn't discount it's existence as a good (excellent) book from a non-WotC publisher.

True. What I said was that I have no opinion about Spycraft being good or being mad because d20 Modern will suck (by some people's opinion) because I don't wnat or need either game.

Granted, it can be harder to identify good books from 3rd parties, but if you flip through a book before buying it, then where it came from shouldn't matter.

I did flip through the 3rd party stuff I purchased and read the blurbs, etc. When I sat down at home with my purchase and realized the blurb was the only good thing about the product that's what turned me off. I don't have time to scour the internet for other's opinions on various books, nor do I have time to stand in a hobby shop reading a 3rd party product in detail (if I didn't get kicked out by an angry HS Owner yelling, "this ain't a frickin' libary!" ). So far the books I have bought from WoTC for 3E D&D have lived up to their billing (I can't say the same for their software, though).

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

So, I'm curious, I've seen some stuff on here concerning modules. Do people still purchase modules? I know that a majority of the D20 community has moved away from modules for the time being, but these things are probably cyclical, if I were a betting man.

My vibe is that most people write their own modules. I personally, have never ran a pre-published module all the way through. I've used pieces of a few, but only exceedingly rarely. What's the general consensu, more modules? Or more DM-toolkiit-type stuff?

Oh if I only had the time to write my own adventures....

I use published adventures exclusively. It takes enough time to work them into my campaign world. If not for the extremely wonderful contibutors to Dungeon magazine I'd have no campaign at all.

I don't need more campaign worlds. I prefer a story driven campaign, so Greyhawk has been my preferred setting for 20 years now.

I'm not sure what you mean by DM-toolkit-type stuff. If you're talking crunchy books, then the five published by WoTC are all I need. Adding any more than Core plus Class Books would just create a dizzying number of options to the game, IMO.

So yes, good adventures with great stories and good challenges set in a generic or easily-adaptable setting are exactly what I am looking for.

 

[JohnNephew]

If you want to get my gaming dollar, publish something like this:

A book of generic villages, with maps. Village sizes ranging from say 10 to 300 people. And when I say generic I mean generic. Don’t name the villages, possibly leave some buildings undescribed. Have a few, by rivers, a few in the hills, a few in the mountains, and a few along a lake or sea shore. Include a few plot hooks, and presto, a product that has some real value to me.

Have you seen Seven Cities?

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

So, I'm curious, I've seen some stuff on here concerning modules. Do people still purchase modules?

Oh yeah. I not only purchase modules, I run them, and I convert them from older editions as well. I don't have time to really write adventures from scratch, though I learned the hard way that converting an old adventure is a lot more work.

I subscribe to dungeon and run adventures out of dungeon as well. The free adventures on WoTC's web-site are also great. (I've run a couple from there)

What I do want that I've not seen out there is ready-made campaigns. I don't want just 1-8, or 6-10, or 10-18, or even 4-14, I want 1-20.

 

[Buttercup]

Do people still purchase modules?

I certainly do. I just counted them, and I have 68. While I've never run one all the way through, I tend to kit-bash. Since I haven't been DMing for very long, reading a module put together by an expert helps me a great deal. So far I've purchased all of the Penumbra and all the Kalamar modules. Obviously I've picked up some others too, but those two brands suit my tastes best. I find their quality top notch.

I actually think of modules as DM toolkit products, same as, say, Kalamar Villain Designer's Handbook.

 

[Buttercup]

Have you seen Seven Cities?

I'll be buying it tomorrow afternoon! I can't wait. All of your Penumbra stuff is just great. Maybe someday you'll publish 'Seven MORE Cities'?

 

[ForceUser]

I almost never run published modules. I hate having to stop in the middle of a game to reference something in the module, or worse, get the details of the story wrong because I didn't write them. I tried to run the Sunless Citadel once last year, got so annoyed with it halfway through that I quit. I bungled on roleplaying Meepo and got him quickly killed by the PCs, which led to other problems.

Actually, I hate published adventures. That's why I write all my own - I have total control and total knowledge, and I know exactly where and what everything is, why they are there, and how to roleplay them correctly without having to slow down gameplay to look stuff up. My players have told me they prefer my adventures to storebought anyway.

The one thing I dislike doing when designing an adventure is building a dungeon. I love running them, I despise building them. I regularly steal maps from the web or old adventure modules and populate them with my own critters. Once I took one of those free download maps from the WotC site, photocopied it three times, then connected all four parts together into one megadungeon. My players loved that adventure, and the DMs among them were amused when I revealed how I'd come up with such a large dungeon so quickly. If only they were all so easy to build.

 

[Psion]

I sometimes run published modules, but generally think when I have the time to prepare my own games, they run better. Published adventures seem okay at first, but it seems like I tire of them too quickly and start to feel confined, and frequently have troouble digging out details that seem obvious to the author, but aren't obvious to the reader.

I am considering running banewarrens, mostly because it's not monolithic and I can break away if I tire of it, but I still fear the proposition. I shied away from running RttToEE because it seemed to me that once you were in the crater mines, you were in it for the long haul.