Why ever make an elemental burst weapon?

[Deset Gled]

Is that a correct extrapolation of the maths?

Not really. This is a nonlinear, overlapping probability problem. You can't just make a hand-wavy multiplicative extrapolation. Note that the math KD did was only a couple of isolated cases. If you want to get the real picture of how to make burst weapons equal to other enhancement, you're going to have to run a full analysis of their effects at all cases of chance to hit, chance to critical, and amount of critical damage. I wish I had the time to do it myself, but I'm at work (and tend to be lazy over the weekends).

Pet peeve: I really hate it when people use the word "maths". But I understand you're British, so I guess I can let is slide .

For comparison. On the one side, d10 lightning, cold, or fire damage. On the other side, DC 14 deafening, d8 sonic. The sonic type is almost worth the drop in damage alone, and then the deafening thing is added in.

I don't think this comparison is very fair, either. The burst enhancements are slightly underpowered, but I think the Thundering ability is also slightly overpowered (and pretty campaign dependent as well). I see both as being more for flavor than crunch, anyway.

 

[Fieari]

Given that thundering is overpowered (debatable), and burst is underpowered (obviously true), again, my question is why any mage would make a burst weapon instead of a thundering one? More bang for your buck. Err... litterally.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Given that thundering is overpowered (debatable), and burst is underpowered (obviously true), again, my question is why any mage would make a burst weapon instead of a thundering one? More bang for your buck. Err... litterally.

Because he was commisioned to?

Because he knows Fireball but not Blindness / Deafness?

 

[Goolpsy]

Counting average damage per attack is like metagaming... sure we can do it here.. but i guess the players shouldn't get a whole season to calculate which item they want on how strong they are. Alot of players choose 'Burst' cause it looks cool, it does more than a normal flaming etc.. and its stronger than thundering. Let them be happy with it, let them have this big bad fighter that think he is the best.. and rejoyce every time he gets a critical hit. Same with Keen.. it should be underpowered too... yet still most Characters wants a weapon with keen.
It simply looks good on paper

 

[Rackhir]

Personally, I cringe at the thought of a weapon that makes loud noises everytime I hit things. Why ring the dinner bell yourself for every monster and guard in earshot.

 

[Stalker0]

The other thing you have to keep in mind with a criting weapon like scythe is its already doing an extraordinary amount of damage on its own. This kind of critical will often be a killing blow, meaning a lot of the extra damage the burst is doing will not come into play.

 

[Ovistavin]

Has anyone noticed that the Thunering property can be completly negated with a 2nd level Bard or Cleric spell? Silence negates all sonic attacks, no other energy type has that kind of limitation. To be effective the opponent would need good information about the wielder and be prepared for it, but the limitation still exists.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Perhaps, it could be worthwile with the Weapon Master PrC from Sword and Fist (of all the things in that book that were broken and/or wrong, I doubt this class was it). Two useful abilities it gives: 1) Imp. Crit. If you already have the feat, add 2 to your threat range. That'd make scythe 17-20 / x4, scimitar 13-20 / x2. 2) A certain number of times per day (I think by 10th level it was 4), after confirming a crit you can up the multiplier by one, making the scythe 17-20 / x5, scimitar 13-20 / x3.

So, a few times per day, the scythe would deal 10d4 + 4d10 <elemental> + (1.5*str bonus + weapon's enhancement bonus + any other bonuses)*5

For 18 str and +1 weapon (+3 after the x burst ability), that would be average of 60 physical + 22 elemental. Pretty good, I must say.


EDIT: Actually, I forgot. The PrC is pretty much only attainable by fighters, as it requires something like 5-6 feats. Especially if you want to have Imp. Crit. before getting it as a class ability for the boosted treat range (why wouldn't you?). So, keeping that in mind, make it 70 physical and 22 elemental to account for the +2 damage from weapon specialization * 5.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Wow! If the guy I posted about used Power attack, with the 2-for-1 exchange with a 2-h weapon (which would get multiplied to 10 points of damage for every point of attack bonus on a crit), he could do some pretty nasty things just taking a massive penalty and swinging for the fences (ie, hoping to get a natural 20 or at least close to it) with his full attack action.

So...um, in conclusion, x burst isn't so bad. I'd still probably never take it on a weapon, though. ^_^

 

[Legildur]

I wouldn't complain if I looted a weapon with the burst property, but I can't see many occasions where I would commission one either.

I'm with Plane Sailing on the Holy property. But that will not suit all campaigns.