D&D 5E Why Forums Should Be Ignored By Game Developers

flametitan

Explorer
The assumed 2 short rest thing is not in the core rules but we all know it due to the hivemind. IIRC it came form one of the game developers on a twitter post. How many D&D players follow the developers on Twitter?

Just to focus on this matter specifically: It is actually mentioned in the DMG (page 84) that you should ideally have two short rests to every long rest.

Otherwise, yes. People aren't necessarily going to play in the same way that the game is theorycrafted, if only because the DM and players might agree upon something that makes theorycrafting more difficult to accomplish (such as rolled stats/ hit points), or the focus of the game makes the combat minded optimization usually seen on the forums less relevant.
 

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Satyrn

First Post
Besides, a statistically significant sample of a population to 95% certainty is a surprisingly small amount.
If they're randomly selected, asked good questions, and analyzed intelligently, aye. But we've only got that last bit going on here.
 


How is the number of people online on one single website at 7.31pm on a Sunday night the sample size?
Sunday night for you.
Lazy Sunday afternoon for North America. Probably higher numbers now than during most work days.

I'll be keeping my eye on it the next few days. I'm curious when the peak is. Week day after work? During work? Weekend? Mornings or evenings?

And where do you get one million from? It's significantly more than that. Heck, the annual traffic on just this one little website is significantly more that that, let alone all D&D forum traffic on the web.
Completely from my ass.
I figured it is much higher. But if the percentage of posters here is that small compared to a low balled number of D&D players, the percentage only gets lower if there are more players.

I get your point, and it's probably right, but the numbers you are using for both the sample size and the full population are way off. Probably best just leave numbers out if it.
I think there's something useful about numbers, even if they're not exact. It's one thing to have an idea we're a small sampling. It's another to attach a number like 0.1%. It's less abstract.
 

Staffan

Legend
Going back even further wand of CLW in 3E. We started using them in late 3.0 but they were technically a custom magic item.

Wands of cure light wounds were on the random treasure tables in 3.0, and the rules did state that you could make a wand of any 4th level spell or lower (assuming prerequisites and such). But your larger point is well taken.

That said, I would amend it to "Designers shouldn't listen solely to forum posts." Forum posts make up a data point - and it's a data point for the most dedicated players, because we're the ones who are in it so deep that we spend hours each day talking about the game, and not just preparing for it. But you can't make a game just for the hardcore players, at least not if you want commercial success.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Sunday night for you.
Lazy Sunday afternoon for North America. Probably higher numbers now than during most work days.

I'll be keeping my eye on it the next few days. I'm curious when the peak is. Week day after work? During work? Weekend? Mornings or evenings?

It makes no difference. The number of people online here at any specific time is irrelevant. It's not a useful figure for this discussion.

4 million individual people visited the site in 2016. That also is not a useful figure for this discussion.

I think there's something useful about numbers, even if they're not exact. It's one thing to have an idea we're a small sampling. It's another to attach a number like 0.1%. It's less abstract.

They're not "not exact" - they're completely wrong. By orders of magnitude in both cases.

Made up numbers are worse than no numbers because they lead to nonsense conclusions. You are dividing one incorrect figure by another incorrect figure to result in an utterly random number which has no bearing on the topic at hand.

Pick 4 million. Pick 1000. Pick whatever, we're still just picking a number to give us our predetermined desired result.

It's the exact opposite of science.

You're better off with anecdotes than making up numbers. At least those are clearly just anecdotes. :)

As a general rule, if you have decided on your conclusion in advance and you're trying to make the numbers fit that conclusion, you'll succeed. You can prove anything that way. But it's not useful.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app
 

Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
It's the contrary i believe R&D should listen to as many people's feedback as they can, be it forum goers, FLGS hangers, Shop owners, convention attendees and organizers, bloggers, writers, artists etc...

Not because some of these D&D players happen to frequent forums that they should be ignored.


Yan
D&D Playtester
 

ProgBard

First Post
Conversely, one might argue that the type of gamer who posts on forums is potentially engaging with the material in a way that is more useful to game designers than the way a more casual gamer does. A forumite is, possibly, someone inclined to analyze the game, test it to breaking, and - if they're not enjoying something - provide a reasonable explanation as to what it is that isn't working.

Potentially.

Which is not to say that every whim and gripe of forum posters should carry equal weight, nor that forums should be the primary guiding force for design changes or the direction of development. Only that, at their best, they can be a source for thoughtful feedback that probably won't come from anywhere else.

Far better, I would say, that designers probably shouldn't give forum feedback any more weight than it merits - whatever that means. But I also suspect most game designers are likely smart enough to know that already.

(In writing workshops, one of the evergreen pieces of advice is that if more than one person tells you some section doesn't work, you should pay attention - but you shouldn't pay much heed to what anyone in particular advises you to do to fix it. I think there's a similar dynamic going on in game design and the type of things that get discussed on forums.)
 



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