D&D 5E Why FR Is "Hated"

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I don't think many people objected to the passage of time in the setting when it was moving forward at a relatively reasonable rate from 1e through 3e (the "present" date moved from 1357 DR to 1375 DR during that time, with a small jump in the setting every few years of real life time). It was only the massive time jump a century into the future in 4e that really caused waves...

Not sure how many people are aware of this outside of regular Adventurer's League players and DMS, but with the arrival of 5E, for every year that passes in the real world, a year also passes in the Realms. This was done for continuity in the AL seasons, to prevent having multiple storylines taking place at the same time, which in some cases would cause conflict between stories/seasons. So the current year in the Realms is 1493. And I am sure this constant passage of time in the Realms annoys some people too.

 

[Selvarin]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about most of the gods until they became relevant. Why read up on dozens of gods when you only need to find out about yours, in which case SCAG has a paragraph on each god which is all you really need.

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Exactly! Even starting back in 1st Edition, only the popular or most prominent gods were introduced. The rest only mattered in the game if they were relevant to your campaign. It just seems like people feel/felt compelled to know or keep track of additional material in general in order for their version of the Realms to be 'authentic' when that needn't be the case.

It's like...going to a banquet and the feasting table is packed. Do you decry all the food there you can't eat or do you, logically, take what you want most and leave the rest for the other guests?

I wonder, do people go to public libraries and lose their minds because they can't possibly read every book that's on the shelves?

 

[Selvarin]

Not sure how many people are aware of this outside of regular Adventurer's League players and DMS, but with the arrival of 5E, for every year that passes in the real world, a year also passes in the Realms. This was done for continuity in the AL seasons, to prevent having multiple storylines taking place at the same time, which in some cases would cause conflict between stories/seasons. So the current year in the Realms is 1493. And I am sure this constant passage of time in the Realms annoys some people too.

Not sure how big of a deal that really is. If one's campaign is slower than the official one it just means some material officially occurred during year X. Doesn't have much of a practical effect.

 

[Selvarin]

But, take the gods as a perfect example.

How many gods are there in Forgotten Realms? Several hundred I believe. I know that back in 2e I had both Faiths and Avatars and the second book whose name I forget, which details a bucket full of gods.

Ok, believable, certainly. There are certainly cultures with that many gods. But, good grief, it isn't really all that necessary is it? I mean, we can get away with a Greek Pantheon of a couple of dozen gods and that's pretty decent. Do we really need hundreds of different gods for a single setting?

But, any suggestion that we pare down that number gets this reaction:



No, it's not that all those numbers hurt my head. It's that all those numbers means that I'm just going to ignore 99% of what you write. Again, it's that mountain of material that I talked about.

Right now, I'm playing a Priest of Kossuth in a new campaign. Now, this is a character that I played back in 2e that I have repurposed for the new campaign (new group, new edition, just a really favorite character). So, I hit up the wiki article on Kossuth. In the 20 years since that character first saw light, there has been virtually nothing added, other than Kossuth is now a primordial apparently.

And I love it. I have a nice clean canvas to paint with an I can make my character and his place in the clergy pretty much entirely my own. But, if I wanted to play a cleric of one of the more popular gods? Good grief, there are dozens of pages of material to wade through.

No thanks.

If they shanked half the gods in FR, who would even notice?

Each god has an 'only what you need to know' main entry--the Cliff Notes version/overview. If you want to dig deeper you will find more information elsewhere but it isn't necessary. In other words, not a problem.

 

[pemerton]

But, again, we're right back to "just ignore stuff".

My ENTIRE problem is the fact that that is NOT a selling point for the setting. Yes, I am completely aware that I can just ignore stuff. But, if I'm ignoring stuff, then what's the selling point of Forgotten Realms? What differentiates the setting from any other setting?

To boil it right down, what's in it for me?

That is unfair. You are only ignoring that which doesn't concern your campaign in the immediate present. You would need to know a handful of deities (including the ones your characters selected). As the setting grows around the campaign, so to can you add more deities/lore should you desire and are capable to.

Do I need to use all of them before it is called a FR campaign? Wheren't you defending @pemerton just recently regarding his right to call his campaign a GH campaign even though he had imported the Towers of Sorcery and Krynn's 3 moons?

It's probably a mistake for me to get involved 400 post into a thread discussing a setting I don't care about - but I was mentioned.

As I read Hussar, he is not disputing what does or doesn't count as a FR campaign. He is just saying "If I ignore stuff the setting doesn't offer me anything; if I don't ignore stuff, there's too much detail, some of which is pointless detail."

I ignore stuff in GH, but I've explained (in other threads) why the setting nevertheless offers me useful stuff (maps; good adventuring geography at the centre of the Flanaess; basic history of mad and magical empires which works well for S&S; etc). I've never bothered to look into what FR might offer, but if Hussar feels it offers little or nothing when the detail is ignored, well that seems to be his prerogative!

Holy crap there's a lot of material for Greyhawk. There's like 22 or so Oerth Journals, each one weighing in at about 30 pages of pretty dense type. Never minding any of the primary sources as well. I REALLY have no interest in a setting with 600+ pages of setting material. Again, wall of material is a non-starter for me.

I once downloaded all the Oerth Journals in a fit of enthusiasm but have read very little of them, and certainly don't pay any attention to them in my GH RPGing.

 

[Davelozzi]

But, if I'm ignoring stuff, then what's the selling point of Forgotten Realms?

1. It is a setting set up to facilitate a wide variety of the types of adventures D&D is built on.
2. It is supported.

 

[Caliburn101]

I began my D&D in 1st Edition Greyhawk, and so am careful in such discussions to avoid being 'grognardy' about it.

I think the issue is that 'kitchen sink' settings are like stew - filling, but lacking in specific and unique flavour.

It stole stuff from Greyhawk, it cobbled a load of real world culture tropes together and was very middle of the road in other respects - not surprising as it was originally developed for children...

I've been running games since it was a thing, and homebrewed a LOT. I don't necessarily like all the published gameworlds, but I like FR the least - it's niche was already firmly taken by Greyhawk (the High Medieval 'standard' world) but Greyhawk was and is grittier.

The main complaint is that in all the non-FR published gameworlds - from Greyhawk to Eberron to Dark Sun etc. YOU are the hero.

In FR - you are an also-ran, who will nearly always be eclipsed by the powers-that-be and the ridiculously over-levelled Elminster types.

Plus Elminster will never be as cool as Mordenkainen...

Anyway - FR allows a GM to set any kind of story somewhere, and has a lovely map and a lot of history. It's just a little lacking in unique flavour and PCs are like mayflies - saving the world one minute, forgotten the next, and all the while Elminster and Drizzt retain their vast fame, overshadowing everyone else.

A campaign world should be set up to allow the PCs to be the MAIN heroes, and it is for this reason more than any other that I prefer to use any gameworld rather than FR.

 

[Shasarak]

But, take the gods as a perfect example.

How many gods are there in Forgotten Realms? Several hundred I believe. I know that back in 2e I had both Faiths and Avatars and the second book whose name I forget, which details a bucket full of gods.

Ok, believable, certainly. There are certainly cultures with that many gods. But, good grief, it isn't really all that necessary is it? I mean, we can get away with a Greek Pantheon of a couple of dozen gods and that's pretty decent. Do we really need hundreds of different gods for a single setting?

It would not be very realistic if there was only one Gawd.

Well, except if your a demi-human in which case you only need one token Gawd.

 

[Davelozzi]

Anyway - FR allows a GM to set any kind of story somewhere, and has a lovely map and a lot of history. It's just a little lacking in unique flavour and PCs are like mayflies - saving the world one minute, forgotten the next, and all the while Elminster and Drizzt retain their vast fame, overshadowing everyone else.

That's fair criticism.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*