Why I Dislike the term Railroading

[TheAuldGrump]

Well, it's just a suggestion of a possibility.

If you have a better idea, then please share it.

If all you can do is complain that you don't like anything, then I don't see how that is any help.

Me? I like calling railroading railroading, and a spade a personnel powered entrenching device.

The Auld Grump sometimes a term is fraught with negative emotional weight because it is meant to be fraught with negative emotional weight.

 

[Obryn]

Well, it's just a suggestion of a possibility.

If you have a better idea, then please share it.

If all you can do is complain that you don't like anything, then I don't see how that is any help.

Actually, I think it's important to make a distinction between railroads, plotted adventures, adventure paths, story-based games, etc. These are not all the same thing.

So it's not about liking "railroading" and therefore calling it something else. That misses the point. Plotted adventures are different from railroads. That's what I was saying about sandbox purists abducting the term "railroad" earlier in this very thread.

If you're respecting that difference, we have no disagreement here.

-O

 

[Doug McCrae]

'Linear adventure' = railroading without the negative connotations. Well, not as many, anyway.

 

[pukunui]

How so? I would classify a linear adventure as a classic example of the "bad" kind of railroading.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Actually, I think it's important to make a distinction between railroads, plotted adventures, adventure paths, story-based games, etc. These are not all the same thing.

You can definitely have story without railroading.

Dragon Age is a good example of this. Tons of story, but lots of player freedom also.

I think some people see the word 'story' and they think that has to mean a Dragonlance or Time of Troubles type of heavily linear adventure. That's not necessarily the case. The GM can have story elements prepared, such as a big reveal about a PC's origin, that could be presented in a variety of situations, or not at all.

 

[Zhaleskra]

Good plotting - The bad guys have a plot, you know what they will do if they are not checked. They adapt their plans when necessary, but the actual direction of the game is determined by the players and their actions.

Bad plotting (i.e. railroading) the bad guys have a plan, and there is only one possible solution. The PCs must adhere to the plot, and Raistlin must turn evil. (One of the above mentioned 'worst gaming experiences - the GM was running Dragonlance (first ed. AD&D), told us not to read the books, then got angry when we did not do what the characters in the book did. (As an example, my version of Raistlin was leaning towards Lawful Good, and told the 'voice in his head' to go pound sand.)

You've just raised an interesting point about something else I dislike in both book & dice RPGs and computer/console RPG simulations: The idea that the bad guys are just going to warm their chairs while they wait for their turns to be killed by the PCs or convinced by the PCs to change their ways. I do realize that in a video game it would take a lot of code to have an active, adaptable, main villain.

 

[Ariosto]

Plotted adventures are different from railroads.

I think that if you've got a real distinction, then it has probably not been lost on everyone else for the past quarter century. There are indeed a lot of things that are different from railroads.

What do you think is called 'railroading' that is not 'railroading'?

 

[Obryn]

I think that if you've got a real distinction, then it has probably not been lost on everyone else for the past quarter century. There are indeed a lot of things that are different from railroads.

What do you think is called 'railroading' that is not 'railroading'?

Adventure paths and plotted adventures have both been unjustifiably called "railroads" simply because they are not sandbox-style locations.

I think the distinction is fairly obvious. As I've said, there are certain elements of the gaming community who have opined that any DM-directed plotline is a railroad. Again, if you are comfortable with making a distinction between railroads and plotted adventures, and agree that one is not necessarily the other, then we have no disagreement.

-O

 

[Reynard]

Adventure paths and plotted adventures have both been unjustifiably called "railroads" simply because they are not sandbox-style locations.

I think the distinction is fairly obvious. As I've said, there are certain elements of the gaming community who have opined that any DM-directed plotline is a railroad. Again, if you are comfortable with making a distinction between railroads and plotted adventures, and agree that one is not necessarily the other, then we have no disagreement.

-O

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

I think it is time for the "sandboxers call everything that isn't a sandbox a railroad" people to show some evidence of this actually occurring, lest the discussion gets lost amongst the strawmen.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I think the distinction is fairly obvious. As I've said, there are certain elements of the gaming community who have opined that any DM-directed plotline is a railroad. Again, if you are comfortable with making a distinction between railroads and plotted adventures, and agree that one is not necessarily the other, then we have no disagreement.

-O

I really want to believe this but the statement above (my emphasis) would suggest otherwise.

I think before we toss around the R word any more we should attempt to define "plotted adventure" on it's own.

I will agree that the mere existence of plots in an adventure does not automatically mean a railroad. Plots make the adventuring world go round. If villains didn't enact any of their fiendish plots then everything going on would be a spontaneous random course of events. Spoiling the bad guy's plans mean that there must actually be some plans to spoil.

So does a plotted adventure mean that someone somewhere in the adventure has a plot/s or agenda/s they are trying to make happen?

If this is a plotted adventure then I can agree that it does not have to be a railroad.