Why I Dislike the term Railroading

[Obryn]

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

I think it is time for the "sandboxers call everything that isn't a sandbox a railroad" people to show some evidence of this actually occurring, lest the discussion gets lost amongst the strawmen.

I'm saying sandbox purists, not sandboxers in general. So that's one strawman right there! I'm not making a claim that sandboxers and old-school gamers in general regularly blur these particular lines.

-O

 

[Ariosto]

So does a plotted adventure mean that someone somewhere in the adventure has a plot/s or agenda/s they are trying to make happen?

If this is a plotted adventure then I can agree that it does not have to be a railroad.

Yes, some words simply raise more questions as to what they mean. That NPCs have agendas is not only not alien to an old-style FRP campaign but is a very powerful tool in moderating such a game! The employment of such material was one of the delights in, for instance, Chaosium's magnificent Griffin Mountain. (It was really a hallmark of Chaosium scenarios after the lackluster Balastor's Barracks.)

Paul Jaquays had previously made good use of the technique in Dark Tower and Caverns of Thracia for Judges Guild.

 

[Scribble]

Since I've only ever seen "railroad" used in a negative way I've always found it to simply mean anytime the DM is willfully forcing a particular action upon unwilling players. (Which can even crop up in a sandbox game.)

If the players are not unwilling to go with the plot, they're not being railroaded.

 

[ExploderWizard]

So does my description of plotted adventure fully cover the meaning of that term or is there more to it?

 

[Nifft]

Since I've only ever seen "railroad" used in a negative way I've always found it to simply mean anytime the DM is willfully forcing a particular action upon unwilling players. (Which can even crop up in a sandbox game.)

If the players are not unwilling to go with the plot, they're not being railroaded.

I could buy that.

So if "the illusion of choice" is every DM's tool, then railroading is when all your players successfully disbelieve.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Doug McCrae]

If railroad means an exertion of GM power that is regarded by the players as intrusive (on player decision making), or implausible, and plot means a sequence of events which affect the players that the GM wishes to see occur then, yes, there can definitely be a plotted non-railroaded game.

The GM just has to be careful that his sequence of events doesn't go against what the players want or is jarringly unlikely.

It's really not that hard. About 95% of the time, imo, player action can be reasonably predicted.

For example the GM has a magic weapon with an interesting curse on it, say it slowly turns the bearer into a demon, but is otherwise beneficial, and his plot is that he wants the item to go to a particular player.

Simply make sure that the weapon is of a type that only that player can use, and that rumours about the weapon's location reach the PCs' ears. Presumably it's in a dungeon. The GM has a good grasp of the players' skill level so he sets the dungeon difficulty to be fairly easy but not so easy that it's suspicious. I mean what's difficult about that? It's D&D, snatching magic items is pretty much all the PCs do.

What's that you say? What if the players refuse the dungeon or fail to win the item? Well, that probably won't happen, so the non-railroaded plot will probably occur. And if it doesn't, well there's always the GM's next evil plot.

 

[Obryn]

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.

I think it is time for the "sandboxers call everything that isn't a sandbox a railroad" people to show some evidence of this actually occurring, lest the discussion gets lost amongst the strawmen.

Alrighty. Many of these are from a few years back, because that's when the terminology really started to get confused.

Linear adventure path= Railroad

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/196400-opposite-railroading-2.html#post3523980

Not-Sandbox = Railroad
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...o-you-play-more-story-combat.html#post4572980

Adventure Paths = Railroad
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...g-story-vs-railroading.html?pp=40#post2954697

Published Modules = Railroad
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...lling-story-vs-railroading-2.html#post2959668

-O

 

[Doug McCrae]

I will agree that the mere existence of plots in an adventure does not automatically mean a railroad. Plots make the adventuring world go round. If villains didn't enact any of their fiendish plots then everything going on would be a spontaneous random course of events. Spoiling the bad guy's plans mean that there must actually be some plans to spoil.

Useless, unhelpful definition.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Since I've only ever seen "railroad" used in a negative way I've always found it to simply mean anytime the DM is willfully forcing a particular action upon unwilling players. (Which can even crop up in a sandbox game.)

If the players are not unwilling to go with the plot, they're not being railroaded.

I could buy that.

So if "the illusion of choice" is every DM's tool, then railroading is when all your players successfully disbelieve.

Cheers, -- N

Ok. How did plotted adventure get from "plots existing within the adventure" to "illusion of choice."

There seems to be some confusion still in the meaning of plotted adventure.

 

[ExploderWizard]

What's that you say? What if the players refuse the dungeon or fail to win the item? Well, that probably won't happen, so the non-railroaded plot will probably occur. And if it doesn't, well there's always the GM's next evil plot.

Acid test:

Who's plot was the whole cursed sword business?

If we can't point the finger to any agency within the gameworld we have choo-choo ville.