Why I don't GM by the nose

[JacktheRabbit]

Because, as I said, if the players are at a loss for what to do, the GM has either failed to give them things to do (hooks) or failed to seize the initiative (kick in the door) when they flounder.

The difference is in style and intent. A DM can be good or bad no matter the style. As an example u had a DM who ran a Pathfinder Adventure Path to the letter, he refused to deviate in any way possible. He demanded that the only possible actions were the ham fisted in your face plot hooks the AP included.

I quit the Group during the 3rd module due to inconsistent play, got annoying that at least 50% of sessions were cancelled for player reasons (really? A Sunday every other week is too hard to plan for). After that I read the AP, everything was exactly as written, BORING! Please give me at least the occasional illusionary choice to feel like I am doing more than running a combat in between bouts of meaningless combat.

The moral? My paradise sounds like it would be your nightmare and vice-versa.

Is either better than the other? No. But to say problems in game can only be the DMs fault is bs.

 

[Krensky]

The difference is in style and intent. A DM can be good or bad no matter the style. As an example u had a DM who ran a Pathfinder Adventure Path to the letter, he refused to deviate in any way possible. He demanded that the only possible actions were the ham fisted in your face plot hooks the AP included.

I quit the Group during the 3rd module due to inconsistent play, got annoying that at least 50% of sessions were cancelled for player reasons (really? A Sunday every other week is too hard to plan for). After that I read the AP, everything was exactly as written, BORING! Please give me at least the occasional illusionary choice to feel like I am doing more than running a combat in between bouts of meaningless combat.

So that sounds like the GM failed at running the AP. It also sounds like the table had other major issues. Without knowing which one it's hard to judge the quality of the hooks. The ones I've read tended to have some decent subplots within the adventure, and a lot of things for a GM to flesh out and build upon if the players take interest in them. Now, I'm running Runelords right now, and admit I flat out told the one player interested in delving into the ruins beneath the Lighthouse that I had nothing for that prepped and that it was unrelated to the Goblin raid they were investigating as their main goal at that time. I did ask them to hold onto that idea for later so we could come back to it.

They have had various encounters and formed relationships with the town outside the published adventure though.

They haven't ever sat and said I don't know what to do now though.

The moral? My paradise sounds like it would be your nightmare and vice-versa.

Is either better than the other? No. But to say problems in game can only be the DMs fault is bs.

I never said that all problems are the GM's fault. Just that the specific one being discussed is.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

The series was Curse of the Crimson Throne. Playing it I was annoyed with the railroading and reading it made me realize it wasn't the DM it was the series.

The bad is that the railroading was not the worst aspect of the series, but that is another discussion.

 

[Krensky]

The series was Curse of the Crimson Throne. Playing it I was annoyed with the railroading and reading it made me realize it wasn't the DM it was the series.

The bad is that the railroading was not the worst aspect of the series, but that is another discussion.

While I own that one, I haven't done more the skim through the player's guide and first volume. I understand there's a number of jumps between volumes that flat out don't make sense.

Now, one aspect of playing in a published module of any sort is accepting that it's a printed module and that means a certain amount of "look at the shiny PC thing, go to the PC thing". On the other hand, part of the GM's job is to plaster the cracks over and keep the pacing smooth and engaging.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

While I own that one, I haven't done more the skim through the player's guide and first volume. I understand there's a number of jumps between volumes that flat out don't make sense.

Now, one aspect of playing in a published module of any sort is accepting that it's a printed module and that means a certain amount of "look at the shiny PC thing, go to the PC thing". On the other hand, part of the GM's job is to plaster the cracks over and keep the pacing smooth and engaging.

Read on, it doesn't get better.

 

[TarionzCousin]

One thing the DM can do when the players say "I don't know what to do" is to give them some options. It is a natural human response when confronted by innumerable possibilities to be temporarily paralyzed.

So you might suggest a few options to your players to get them doing stuff:

Do you want to investigate the statue? Investigate the oranges? Are you touching either of them? If not, how are you investigating? Do you want to check out the door to determine if it is locked?

 

[JacktheRabbit]

One thing the DM can do when the players say "I don't know what to do" is to give them some options. It is a natural human response when confronted by innumerable possibilities to be temporarily paralyzed.

So you might suggest a few options to your players to get them doing stuff:

Do you want to investigate the statue? Investigate the oranges? Are you touching either of them? If not, how are you investigating? Do you want to check out the door to determine if it is locked?

The problem being giving options is hard tondo without tipping your hand and effectively telling the players what to do.

 

[The Shaman]

The problem being giving options is hard to do without tipping your hand and effectively telling the players what to do.

It's less of a problem if you're not trying to steer them toward a particular outcome, if you have no hand to tip as it were.

I try to frame any advice in terms of what an adventurer is likely to know. A soldier will know soldiery things, a noble will know nobley things, a pirate will know piratey things, and so on. If a soldiery or nobley or piratey thing is relevant to the situation, then it's easy enough to toss out something like, "From your time in the regiment/at court/aboard ship, you recall that . . . ."

 

[nedjer]

Statue with sharpened teeth. That's an iron spike in the forehead and orange juice for me thanks very much.

To be fair to both 'sides' most of us start out in thrall to the fixed narrative media that we're fed and sold on a daily basis. When you're used to being served school dinners on a greasy plate for every meal it takes practice to start making choices from an a la carte menu.

And even more practice to get up from the dining table and walk into the kitchen with confidence

 

[TarionzCousin]

The problem being giving options is hard tondo without tipping your hand and effectively telling the players what to do.

In the scenario given, there are only a few things worth doing. By noting all of them (statue, oranges, door) you limit the number of options without actually telling the players what to do.

Yes, you are in effect saying "Eating the dungeon lint in the corner will not accomplish anything useful," but if you're players don't know that already you've got other problems.