Why I hate D&D 3.5

[Raesene Andu]

Now before I begin this long winded rant, I'll point out that I know that 3.5 will be available to be downloaded for free, but that does not invalidate the points I make.

Firstly, I would like everyone to think back to what WotC said was one of the primary aims of 3E, i.e. to collate the hundreds of 2E products into a few, core rulebooks and products. Have they done this?

Well, I think not, and this is my primary concern with the upcoming 3.5 edition. In the past 3 years, WotC has published nearly as many accessories to the core rulebooks as existed under 2E. Just looking at the upcoming releases and there seems to be one of these accessories a month (savage species in feb, arms and equipment guide in march, etc) and most, if not all are merely rehashing and reworking old 2E products.

Now we have the new 3.5 edition coming out, which if the stories I've been reading are true, will invalidate much of the material released before this year. This means that WotC can then rerelease some of the old 3E material again, although of course it will 'updated' and 'improved' but you will still have to fork out more cash for it.

WotC appears to be following the same comercial policy that they were so successful using with Magic. Every few years they release a new 'updated' version of the core rules (or cards), and at the same time invalidate the previous versions, or the accessories that were released after it. It is a very sound commercial policy, but very bad for the consumer.

Of course, it remains to be seen if this will be true or not, but from what I've read so far, it seems so. Are these changes necessary, or even wanted? And what about this talk of writing the books assuming that you use minitures, just as WotC is looking to start selling minitures. Is it only me that finds this a little funny?

I can tell you right now, I won't be adding to the profits of this greedy company by buying 3.5. The only way I could be convinced otherwise is if the books were expanded to include much of the new material released (i.e. the Epic Level rules, tome & blood, sword & fist, etc). Release a book that is virtually the same with just a few rule changes adds up to a waste of money. Especially as it is primarily just rule changes they are talking about including.

It makes me sick when I read the way some people are going on about the changes, salivating over the new rules. In a way it highlights what is so wrong with 3E, it is just rules. There is little roleplaying or adventure left in the game now, just hundreds of pages of rules.

This became very obvious to me when I was working on the soon-to-be-released d20 Birthright Campaign Setting. Everyone was so keen to sacrifice the setting to fit it to the d20 rules, rather than the other way around. Rules should never be more important than the game.

Anyway, that is my opinion, agree with it or not, it needed to be said. 3E has been a disaster IMO, a greedy rules monster that has devoured much of what was good with D&D. 3.5 will just be more of the same.

 

[jaerdaph]

Dude, I feel your pain. D&D 6.0 really blows, and I can't believe Jenna Bush is President!!!

- just havin' a little fun, no offense intended.

 

[Crothian]

I think the changes are needed and wanted. They have said they are changing most of the things that people on this board have been complaining about for the past 2 and half years. It's nice to actually think someone was listening.

Rules are the backbone of every game. I don't need role playing advice or anything like that. I've got that stuff, don't have the solid rules fondation. I think the changes are going to be much more then you seem to think. And in the end Wizards is in the business of making money, so I don't see how they can be faulted for trying to do that.

 

[Piratecat]

Wow, bitter much?

If you're going to complain, you had better get your facts correct. Would you like to take a guess how many products TSR/WotC published for 2e - and how many they've published for 3e? Hmm?

In any case, and this may be a shock to you, companies are in business to make money. I'm pretty excited that WotC can do this while putting out what I consider to be a damn good game. If you don't agree, well, luckily no one has shown up at your house and taken away your 2e Birthright and Al Qadim books.

 

[jaerdaph]

I agree, the minimal changes they are making are needed, and the bulk of the "new" edition seems to revolve around clarity rather than revision.

Am I the only one who read d20 Modern and said, "Oh, that's what you meant?"

Bring it on - change is good!

 

[Raesene Andu]

Oh, and I should point out, that although I was opposed to the way the d20 Birthright campaign setting was written (following the 3E model of rehashing old material) it is a beautiful product and well worth the download when it becomes available. I would have preferred something that introduced a lot more new material, but it was not to be.

However, although it is primarily a reworking of old material, the d20 BRCS does include the core rules from five 2E Birthright books, which means none of them ever need republishing. This is what should be done with D&D 3.5.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

I can tell you right now, I won't be adding to the profits of this greedy company by buying 3.5.

Yeah, go stick it to the man.

That was a pretty funny satire of all the people complaining, but they can feel the way they want without you making a ridiculous parody of them.

SD

 

[el-remmen]

Heck, my biggest complaint about 2E was not the number of products and expansions - but how each of them seemed to be written without keeping the others in mind (which led to contradication and power inflation, etc. . .) If in order to keep 3E a cohesive and organic rule-set WotC comes out with revised books (along with a free web-enhancement of course) then I am all for it.

That way, old-time players can pick and choose what they want, and newer players aren't overwhelmed trying to incorporate all these different books and rules at once, simple need to pick up the most recent version.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Would you like to take a guess how many products TSR/WotC published for 2e - and how many they've published for 3e? Hmm?

I don't think it's a matter of total accessories; It's a question of how many in X amount of time. In which case, 3E is just as accessorized as 2E, if not more.

As for Raesene's comment about RP, I kinda agree. While it is possible to RP to 3E, I'm a firm believer that Rules and RP can't really be seperated. The IDRP motto The Rules make the World essentially means that the reality of a game is defined by the rules by which the game is played. Thus, while in the act of role-playing, you are assuming a persona as exists within that reality.

Double this by the rules system that is described as "allowing" min/max and power-gaming, while in fact it encourages it.

This has the effect of actually limiting RP because the multitude of possible character concepts are now restricted by the confines of the rules; Character concepts that aren't based on power-gaming or min/max are looked down for not being "viable" or "effective" despite being more based on personality and non-numerical goals.

Having a look at the new Pit Fiend, I see exactly what the game doesn't need: Old monsters with more beaf. I don't see this doing anything but enforcing a higher power-level for PCs.

Of course, with Andy "The Munchkin King" Collins heading the project, what else was to be expected.

 

[jaerdaph]

X, RP, 2e, 3e, RP to 3E, IDRP...

Dude, your making my head spin!

Okay, it seems I can't have one beer on a Saturday night anymore...