Deadguy said:
I am sorry, but all I can say, Bendris Noulg, is "absolute tosh!" It's not that I don't agree that the rules provide the framework in which we describe role-playing interactions. It's the notion that more rules means fewer choices and less role-play. Following that spurious logic, we are reduced to saying that the most perfect role-playing is achieved by playground "make-believe"!
Could you
please try reading my post. I didn't say less role-play. What I'm saying is that the rules enforce character development comparible to He-Man and DragonballZ, where power is the primary focus of most rules. To which I need only point out any WotC adventure, which have all proven to be crap, as validation of my views.
I would consider a 5th Level Expert (Librarian) just as valid a character concept as a 42nd Level Necromancer.
Do you?
The rules serve to create a common framework, to allow the referee and players to mutually participate understanding the expectations of the setting.
Wrong. What the rules do is enforce someone elses expectations onto a setting. 3E sets a high-bar of measure for PC power, and it's magic/adventurer's economic system tells me exactly what kind of environment my world is "expected" to have. This, as a rules-set, is a limitation. One that previous editions did not have.
But I do not see that they actually prevent you from role-playing!
It doesn't. However, it creates a rather specific environment, and some folks might not find that environment inspiring to role-play in.
They may constrain some of the actions that your character can take, but that most definitely is not role-playing. That's just follwoing the underlying constraints of the game reality. You make the choices for your characters as you see appropriate. If there are problems, it is most likely due to a mismatch between your own expectations and those of the referee, and that can happen in any game system! You don't have to be an optimised killing machine if that isn't the intent of the game being run (I know that I don't run games like that). It's something which is resolved by discussion and the formulation of the underlying game contract.
The problem is that CR enforces a character of Level X to have Y amount of power. Focus on a game centered around Z amount of power instead, and half of the rules in the DMG become useless.
As for your complains about the Pit Fiend, well I heard them on that thread and they didn't fly there. You don't like the way they've increased the power of a signature creature? Fine, then use whatever CR you think appropriate for it, or use the current version or make up your own alternative. Frankly all that seems to have been done is to beef it up to fil the niche that was intended for it in the hierarchy of demonic powers. That's just a consequence of the intensive testing the rules have had over the past couple of years.
Actually, you'll note that I had no
mechanical complaints about the Pit Fiend. What I stated in the other thread is that I found the concept of "standard tactics" funny in that I'll
gladly drive a metagamer nuts by not using them.
And finally, your remark about Andy Collins is just a nasty, mean-spirited slur!
Nasty? Yes.
Mean spirited? Yes.
Slur? Nope. The man's a munchkin. I'd really like him to join my game so that I can laugh while he runs away in frustration ripping his hair out.
You don't like the direction he;s taken (though do we really know that? it's far too soon to say)? That's one thing. But nasty little jibes like "Munchkin King"? Uncalled for! You are giving In-depth Role-play a bad name, and that annoys me since it's the category I would put myself too.
Actually, me and the Royal Munchkin got into a major debate at the WotC once. That's how I learned that the guy couldn't RP his way out of a brown lunch bag. I've also read his house rules at his web site. That's how I know he's a munchkin.
BTW, I created the term "In-Depth Role-Play" and petitioned WotC to create the In-Depth board. So if you have problems with me, all I can really so is "So fargin' what?" Lots of people got issues with me, but it's never kept me up at night. Doubt you will either.
