D&D 4E Why I like the 4ed Forgotten Realms (and 4ed in general, for that matter)

[Mercurius]

Very simply, because Wizards of the Coast is taking a risk and giving us something different, not simply a re-packaging of old material. They could play it safe, change a few things, and move the timeline up a few years, but it would essentially be the same setting and FR folks and "setting suckers" like myself would at least buy the main book, but probably unnecessarily. But instead they are trying something new. They are taking a hallowed D&D institution of 20+ years and transforming it to an almost unrecognizable state. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with it. If it sucks, who cares? The old FR still exists--there are dozens of supplements across editions that give us a very detailed, classic D&D setting.

My recommendation for those that don't like it: Fugettaboutit! Why worry? Just use the old setting and make your own rules conversions--it should be easy enough. Or--gasp!--try something new and give the new FR a whirl...

The "new Realms" exemplifies What I Deem Good about 4th edition. Apply the principles above to the game itself and, voila, we get a truly new edition, with signficantly different surface features but still that same old D&D feel. Some folks get upset when TSR/Wizards decides to come out with a new edition, as if it is just a ploy to money grab (from our willing hands, I might add). Sure, it is largely about money--at least on the level of Hasbro and the Wizards execs, but at least when a new edition comes out--at least with 3ed and 4ed if not 3.5ed--unlike many game systems they are actually bringing us something new, with major revisions and new material.

Kudos, Wizards. I'm buying the books.

 

[kennew142]

I doubt that the 4e FR will be as different from the 3e FR as some people seem to think. If you were running a game in Maztica or Mulhorand, I'm sure that the setting will seem very different to you. But the FR has always focused on Sword Coast, Western Heartlands, the North, Moonsea, Cormyr and the Dales. We've been told that Waterdeep, Cormyr and the Dales are still around. I would be very surprised if they've eliminated any of the rest of these regions.

The weave is gone. Much like any other RSE (and love them or hate them, they've been part of the FR canon), this plot will change things. Mystra/Midnight is no more, and evil magicians no longer have to worry that their access to magic will be cut off just because the goddess of magic is NG. But I predict that magicians will still be important in the FR. Sun and Moon elves (mechanically now Eladrins) will still be more powerful and have access to greater magical rituals than anyone else.

Many powerful NPCs will no longer be with us due to the new editions focus on the PCs instead of background NPCs who can do all the adventures for you. But Elminster and Drizz't are still around. I would suspect that we will also see the Serpent and Artemis Entreri soon.

Some nations have been subsumed by the return of abeir, but the ones that have always been iconically the FR will remain. Mostly this means getting rid of historical analogue regions and adding some wilderlands back onto the map, hopefully for the GMs to develop in their own campaigns.

There is no doubt that the changes mentioned thus far will have tremendous effect on long running campaigns that have followed the FR canon over the years, campaigns where numerous PCs interact with the political status quo. IMO the new FR will be closer to the feel of the Gray Box.

As a very long time fan, I hope that I am right.

BTW, all of my groups FR campaigns (three right now) were approaching their natural conclusions anyway. We've been working out the future stories of our soon-to-be retired characters so that they will have an impact on the new FR campaign that will be starting up ASAP. Many of us are looking forward to playing descendants of these original characters.

 

[Henry]

The weave is gone. Much like any other RSE (and love them or hate them, they've been part of the FR canon), this plot will change things. Mystra/Midnight is no more, and evil magicians no longer have to worry that their access to magic will be cut off just because the goddess of magic is NG.

I never really saw that potential in the source material. It made it clear that her job was to protect the Weave, not moderate evildoers. Near as I saw, you could take as many kingdoms/gold pieces/slaves/babies as you wanted, as long as you didn't screw with the Weave. Was there an example of Mystra/midnight cutting off an evildoer in the sourcebooks, or perhaps the novels? (Haven't read an FR novel in almost 10 years, so I might have missed it.)

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I never really saw that potential in the source material. It made it clear that her job was to protect the Weave, not moderate evildoers. Near as I saw, you could take as many kingdoms/gold pieces/slaves/babies as you wanted, as long as you didn't screw with the Weave. Was there an example of Mystra/midnight cutting off an evildoer in the sourcebooks, or perhaps the novels? (Haven't read an FR novel in almost 10 years, so I might have missed it.)

I don't recall Mystra ever directly doing anything like that, but there are many novels I haven't read.

However, her Chosen certainly went around stomping on evil doers who weren't messing around with the Weave.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Or it could be that alot of them feared anything happening to the Weave, ie: them losing their powers.

So they concentrated on making sure to maintain the Weave.

 

[kennew142]

I never really saw that potential in the source material. It made it clear that her job was to protect the Weave, not moderate evildoers. Near as I saw, you could take as many kingdoms/gold pieces/slaves/babies as you wanted, as long as you didn't screw with the Weave. Was there an example of Mystra/midnight cutting off an evildoer in the sourcebooks, or perhaps the novels? (Haven't read an FR novel in almost 10 years, so I might have missed it.)

There was never an example of it in the canon. The most irksome thing about Midnight-Mystra to me was that she was NG. The earlier Mystra had been LN. It made no sense for the goddess of magic to be good. Her inactivity enabled evil. You know the old quote, "All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." In this case, Midnight-Mystra had the power to stop all the evil magicians dead in their tracks. I have always underplayed alignment in my games, so it was never an issue for me. It did mean that evil mystic theurges couldn't worship the goddess of magic (according to the RAW).

 

[Ovinnik]

Many powerful NPCs will no longer be with us due to the new editions focus on the PCs instead of background NPCs who can do all the adventures for you. But Elminster and Drizz't are still around. I would suspect that we will also see the Serpent and Artemis Entreri soon.

This was my biggest problem with the old Realms... It always seemed like you couldn't throw a rock without hitting an Epic-level spellcaster (or missing one, due to their magical protections). It seemed like everything which could be done had already been done by one of the canon NPCs... And if it hadn't been done by them, why aren't THEY doing it instead of the PCs?

But, erm, Artemis is human, isn't he? How would he survive the hundred or so years of the Spellplague? I suppose he could have been caught in stasis by some temporal warp, but that seems so... Blarg. I hope Salvatore doesn't do anything silly like that, with ANY of his characters.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Well... Artemis could potentially survive thanks to his vampiric dagger. He did get a massive boost in age-length when he took the life-force of something... Forgot what is was right now.

 

[Mirtek]

I don't recall Mystra ever directly doing anything like that, but there are many novels I haven't read.

She did it in the prequel novels to the avatar trilogy. She did not directly cut them from the weave, she instead made spells she considered too evil or too destructive so hard to cast that ut was nearly impossible to regain them. Both Talos and Tempus complained about their wizards needing hours to memorize a single of these spells.

 

[kennew142]

This was my biggest problem with the old Realms... It always seemed like you couldn't throw a rock without hitting an Epic-level spellcaster (or missing one, due to their magical protections). It seemed like everything which could be done had already been done by one of the canon NPCs... And if it hadn't been done by them, why aren't THEY doing it instead of the PCs?

But, erm, Artemis is human, isn't he? How would he survive the hundred or so years of the Spellplague? I suppose he could have been caught in stasis by some temporal warp, but that seems so... Blarg. I hope Salvatore doesn't do anything silly like that, with ANY of his characters.

Without posting any spoilers for fans of the novels, I believe that events leave open the possibility that he may be able to survive.

I have always disliked the idea of numerous high level NPCs roaming around the world. IMC the player characters are qualitatively different from NPCs. Much like in Eberron, an NPC does not gain xp in the same ways that a PC does. A veteran of many battles may not be a 1st level warrior, but nor will he be a 10th level fighter. NPC wizards spend their time practicing their craft to earn a living or to protect the kingdom from behind the scenes. NPC clerics tend their flocks, intercede with the divine powers and perform the rituals that are required by their religion. PCs form into commando bands to sneak into monster filled territory and take the battle to them.

IMO establishing adventurer as a career practiced by numerous NPCs all over the world was the single worst mistake the designers ever made in FR (or in any campaign world).