Why is 4e like World of Warcraft?

[glass]

They have it backwards: WoW is like D&D!

This. Exactly this.


glass.

 

[WhatGravitas]

DnD is the only table top RPG with an aggro system. That's a "revolution" in table top roleplay to give players the ability to dictate who NPCs will attack.

How so? No, seriously - the defenders have to ways to "draw aggro" in 4E:

Fighter: Hit and stop targets trying to get past you.
Paladin: Dealing damage to targets not attacking you.

None of these are dictating the behaviour of a monster or NPC - they only make one choice more appealing.

But then, you could say that mages fireballing the monsters were "drawing aggro", because "geek the mage" is the most appealing choice.

Cheers, LT.

 

[AllisterH]

I think a lot of people need to remember WHY there is an aggro system in the first place for MMORPGs before they actually criticize it.

The reason for the aggro system was because real life DMs CHEAT. We blatantly cheat, fudge the dice and play the monsters dumb.

Seriously, when facing down a wizard and a fighter, why again does the monster attack the fighter? Past level 6, the mage is the more dangerous one and intelligent monsters know this while to unintelligent monsters, the guy wielding the sharp and pointy stick whose encased in that hard stuff that hurts their teeth when they bite is so NOT their first target.

Mages should draw most of the attention of the monsters, but frankly, that's not fair to the player. Thus, DMs cheat and actually have the monsters engage the fighter when by rights, given the turn-based system of D&D, the monster should simply walk around the bloody fighter and attack the mage.

Now with a real-time system of WoW, this shouldnt be a problem but WoW characters can't block monsters. Thus, the aggro system is used.

 

[xechnao]

Older edition design was ultimately about inspiring your tabletop experience. 4e design is about playing, like a card game is for example. Since computer games are all about playing as with card game design, in this regard 4e is like WoW, since they both have a fantasy dressing.

 

[Steveyd]

1. Each class in WoW has three "Talent Trees", areas unique to each class that you can advance at each level past nine, each with tiers of advancement and you can mix and match each. Sound 4th ed familiar?

2. PC's matter, huh? Just like in the Forgotten Realms I'll bet. *roll* It's s MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER game, you cannot have each WoW player be capable of changing the world and possibly thereby ruining it for the other million people playing it. When organized 4th ed play comes along, it too will be just as massive (well, sorta) and PCs there will "matter" just as much.

3. Rewards based on free time? Ignoring the fact that the longer you are logged out in WoW, the longer your "double xp" meter fills up notwithstanding (a device specifically to reward those who CANNOT devote massive ammounts of time to the game), try getting xp or loot in D&D when you don't devote any free time to show up to your game session. This arguement is such a non-starter. You can't get any rewards if you don't play. Duh.

4. Magic Item dependancy? Welcome to 1-3.5 ed of D&D. Time will tell how far this goes in 4th. In OD&D and 1st ed, a fighter was litterally nothing but a pile of hit points with out magic items.

5. You don't have to buy expansions for WoW either. And if you are in a campagin in D&D and the DM and all the other players but you buy the latest splatbook and use the rules, you can either have the new rules affect you or quit playing, just like in an MMORPG.

I don't think you're reading the same thread as everyone else. The line just above his points is "Just for argument's sake, here is why I think D&D 4e is NOT like WoW", and explains before that he doesn't understand just what the comparisons are. You then proceed to make a confused pile of points that partly refute the OP, partly support him and some that are a mix of both...

1. Probably your closest point. WoW has talent trees, 4e has builds for each class. I think there is a point to be made in the similarity between the required system mastery of WoWs talent trees and 3.5 character builds though. Poorly placed talent points and poorly picked levels make you very ineffective in either game.

2. His entire point here was that PCs in WoW do not matter, they can't really change the world and nothing they do will matter in the long run. PCs in any DnD edition are often the characters changing the world. We'll see what they do in 4e for Forgotten Realms, but arguing that a campaign world of past editions was more like WoW than the current one isn't doing much to refute his point.

3. WoW has that one carrot for you to advance faster to the point where that carrot doesn't matter. Once you are 70 that is right out the window. At that point it's all about how much time you spend in PvP, instances and raids. When you are not in those you are spending time farming stuff so you'll be prepared for those. DnD you just show up, play with your friends and advance as fast or slow as the DM allows. MMOs are major time sinks, DnD is just how often your group wants to play (and you don't spend the rest of the week farming lower level creatures for drops so you can play).

4. So... arguing that older editions were even more magic item dependent than 4e is... doing what to refute the OPs point that 4e isn't like WoW?

5. You don't have to buy the WoW expansions but have fun being at 60 with nothing to do because everyone else does have the expansion and isn't even on the same world as you. You don't need the DnD "expansions". You can stick to the original core stuff. Your DM can pick and choose what to allow and what not to on a case by case from the later books.

Seriously, if you are going to slam the comparisons between D&D and MMORPGs, pick better points.

Please, feel free to make any relevant points at all. We'll just excuse this time as a natural one on reading comprehension . It happens.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Older edition design was ultimately about inspiring your tabletop experience.

What exactly is a "tabletop experience"?

Cheers, LT.

 

[xechnao]

What exactly is a "tabletop experience"?

Cheers, LT.

Sharing emotions with friends on a table that point to and from a common field (fantasy, action, drama, whatever).

Traditionally rpgs are about providing these reference points.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Sharing emotions with friends on a table that point to and from a common field (fantasy, action, drama, whatever).

How do you achieve that?

Cheers, LT.

 

[xechnao]

How do you achieve that?

Cheers, LT.

See edit above. RPGs are there to provide you with this ground.

 

[xechnao]

How do you achieve that?

Cheers, LT.

I am not sure what you are truly asking though? Are you asking about the medium? It is about communicating in your language obviously.