Why is Min/Maxing viewed as bad?

[Psion]

Sheesh, I hate coming late to threads that are turning ugly.

Anyway, depositing my 2 cents, page 1 style.

Min/maxing, like so many other things, is best taken in moderation. You need to make a character that is good at their role in order to persist at the gamist take on the game.

Taken to extremes, it becomes cheesy and annoys both GM and fellow players. That's pretty much my personal definition of munchkinism.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Okay going to say this for the last time, as it is labeled a "Roleplaying game" that is what it was desgined for, therefore "use" outside of "Roleplaying", is really a "misuse"

It may be doable, but doesn't make it right

Ah, I see now so then your beef really isnt with the players but with the mislabling of D&D as a role-playing game?

Because the role-playing game does encourage the use of mini's and a battle mat and other elements of wargaming (duration effects and ranges for weapons and spells). I mean it's right there in the PHB. and wargames dont have anything to do with role-playing games. I know I actually play a few wargames myself so these are two different animals with no room for mixing, right?

Or are you still sticking to anyone who doesnt focus on characters as opposed to characters+character builds or just character builds is playing the game wrong?

 

[Elf Witch]

I have noticed that in a lot of these type threads it seems to come down to a all or nothing. You are either a min/maxer or you build sub optimal characters. You are either a roll player who does not care about story or a role player who does not care about rules so they should just get into acting instead.

There is nothing wrong with some min/maxing. If you want your character to be really good at one thing like say a combat monster then you would min/max thoese skills and stats. You would be sucky at social situations but that could be fun role playing.

Min/maxing becomes a problem when it is done to the extreme so that you have one PCs who is just so much more powerful than any of the others that they ended up just taking over and sucking the fun for the rest of the players.

Building a character who is different and not taking the obvious advantages say for example building a fighter who is very charismatic so you have a higher chrasima stat then stregth and you take a lot of cross class skills in things like diplomacy and the leadership feat is a very valid character and not as sub optimal as some would have you believe.

Now building what I call lame duck characters is a problem. Because you have to be able to contribute to what the party does. Its not fair to expect the rest of the party to carry your character. I am having a problem with this in my game with a player who can't seem to grasp that her charcter is a liability for the party. She is playing rogue who does not fight nor does she have anything to do with traps she is all about using her seduction skills to survive. She hides when they get into a combat sitution. The rest of the party is ready to throw her to the wolves at this point. And the player does not get it. I tried to sterr her into playing a begiler which would fit her better and give her some magic to boot which would help the party.

 

[hong]

A bit of both, but must admit, not so much of the funny in light of some peoples thoughtlessness knee jerk reactions,




Thats why I asked for their version/understanding of what a munchkin is,

theres not alot of point me just telling such people,
but let it dawn on them in the explaining,




A roleplaying game should be about roles, the character, am I correct?
or is this my misunderstanding of years and years of roleplaying?

Roll players on the other hand have little to non at all desire to play a "Role"
but rather simply roll the dice for the sake of the system,

where is the "Role" in that form of play?

That's the best free verse I've ever seen.

 

[Nac_Mac_Feegle]

I have a reply I want to post, but it might not be taken well, so I will say this

"Its a Roleplaying game"

Librarius, your the one telling poeple if you min/max your "rollplaying" not "roleplaying". This is purely your opinion. If you roll dice at the table, your "rollplaying" and if you play a role from the players handbook, your "roleplaying"

They are not seperate entities, only to you, you are touting your style as superior, by making the assumption we are "rollplaying" that min/maxing is "rollplaying"

Who defines "rollplaying"? who defines "min/maxing"? who defines "roleplaying"?

I have played D&D and other systems since 1983, in every system, its was called a "roleplaying game" and yet every system requires you to "roll" dice. They are one in the same. If you want to play a diceless system, fine, but this is D&D discussion, and D&D is not diceless, to belittle poeple, because they use dice in a dice system is ridiculous.

Once you pick a character class, your building your character, your metagaming as you write his feats down.

As soon as you decide to favour one stat for the other, for whatever reason, be it roleplaying considerations or combat considerations, your min/maxing.

As soon as you enter combat and roll to hit based on your strength and BaB, your rollplaying.

It bothers me that 90% of the people in this thread are accepting of everyone elses game style but you. You insist that yours is the only way, and that others are mere "rollplayers". Have you seen fear of girls?. Theres the one true way to play games, and theres us mere hobbyist gamers.

Feegle Out

 

[Rystil Arden]

But I don't think the label for said people is 'min/maxers'. Possibly Abhorrent, sure, but I'm just talking about min/maxers. Or trying to

Edit: Hi, Rystil Arden!

Hi Goblyn. Guess nobody wants to reply to my other post, but at least I got a hello. Name recognition does help It used to be in threads like this, I'd just be ignored completely when I stepped in on page 2

 

[Goblyn]

I have noticed that in a lot of these type threads it seems to come down to a all or nothing. You are either a min/maxer or you build sub optimal characters. You are either a roll player who does not care about story or a role player who does not care about rules so they should just get into acting instead.

I find this unfortunate, because all the extremes as well as the moderates are valid. You a world-shaking ass-kicker who can't read or even use a fork? Ok. You some dude who is not bad at everything but never gets to shine? Ok.
Do these character types exist in RL? Yes. Will they survive the adventuring lifestyle? Maybe. Are they interesting if everybody does it the same way? No.

 

[Goblyn]

Hi Goblyn. Guess nobody wants to reply to my other post, but at least I got a hello. Name recognition does help It used to be in threads like this, I'd just be ignored completely when I stepped in on page 2

Yeah, I know. For the most part, I'm still there.

 

[Jupp]

I have noticed that in a lot of these type threads it seems to come down to a all or nothing. You are either a min/maxer or you build sub optimal characters. You are either a roll player who does not care about story or a role player who does not care about rules so they should just get into acting instead.

Actually I think that this hard line that is sometimes drawn on these forums does not really exist on most game tables. In the end it is all about having fun in the group. And if someone would come to me and tell me "THIS is the way the game is meant to be played" while there is an endless numbers of ways to play D&D, and he would insist that his views have be be mine...Well, time to leave the table and find a DM that is more open minded.

As long as a player does not destroy or disrupt the game for the others in the group with what he is doing, well, then I dont even see a point in discussing it. And a GM should be tolerant enough towards those players trying to get the best out of their characters as long as it does not harm the game.

 

[Psion]

As some one once said "that is the difference between Roll Playing and Roleplaying

The term "roll playing" has passed its expiration date and is now curdled and fetid. Please deposit it in the nearest dumpster.