Why is Min/Maxing viewed as bad?

[ShinHakkaider]

If you never saw min-maxing in previous editions then you weren't looking hard enough.

Quoted for truth...

That's also where I draw the line between powergaming and munchkinism. Munchkins typically don't care about their PC's story at all, it's just a collection of numbers. Powergamers like their characters to be powerful, but not necessarily at the expense of fulfilling RP.

That's two for two...

 

[Goblyn]

What about belittleling players who like to min/max and concentrate only on RP and fluff? Wouldn't it be just to regard it as just as bad, then?

Would it be? It would be consistent, sure; but just? On some thought of it, I think it might not be just to belittle anyone regardless of their gaming style.

But it would definitely be consistent.

 

[librarius_arcana]

Unfortunately you simply cannot take the 'role' out of the character. A fully optomized combat monkey without a single point in any social or knowledge skills will be just that in society: a maladjusted retarded sociopath spat upon by the mercantile and nobility. People like this exist in real life and would definitely moreso in the ultra-violent and eldritch world of D&D. It's a crappy one, but the role is there.

But the character is not created for that "role" if it was that would be fine,

but people create those types of characters simply because it gives the most system advantage, no other, which is all of the difference,

 

[Goblyn]

Or in other words "making your character so bad at one thing that you wreck adventures by screwing up some scenes, in order to make you character so good at something else that you wreck adventures by screwing over other scenes."

Not quite. Remember this is a team game. so "making your character the good one at this but is abysmal at doing this, so another character should.

 

[Odhanan]

Terms like powergamers, min/maxers, munchkins and so on, so forth are terms to belittle people rather than help them. These are terms to say "look, I'm more mature now, I stopped being one of these".

Which is just. *sigh*. We all have different experiences and different things we like and dislike. Because we already went somewhere doesn't mean it ain't going to be fun for someone else who hasn't gone there yet.

Once again: The Evolution of Munchkin. A good read. Really, really.

 

[librarius_arcana]

Is that the only way it can be played?
Is it the only way it should be played?
Is defining a role playing game so narrowly missing out on half the fun?
Are you dismissing a whole heap of players out there because they don't share your focused view?

I think we will have to agree to disagree which is a shame. I think you would enjoy playing at my table.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

Well if I buy a can of beens, I expect "beens" to be in the tin,

 

[Rystil Arden]

it is if character doesn't come first (which is almost all of the case's, as it tends to be a secondary thought if at all, and is the first thing to go for system advantage)

Not necessarily. I have definitely seen min-maxers who not only come up with a concept first and then try to make sure it is viable, they help others in the group who aren't as proficient with the rules but want to try out a certain concept that is difficult to manage easily. The min-maxer is the rules expert who can help the other players towards the correct crunch to get their fluff going. She's the one who lets the player creating a Rogue2/Enchanter3 who wants to charm enemies proficiently and master illusions while still keeping a good number of skill points and Charisma-based skills that they are trying to fit a round peg in a square hole and should check out the Beguiler in PHBII instead.

 

[Goblyn]

Agreed. Min-maxing was rife throughout 1st and 2nd edition. In fact, it was a stated design goal of 3e to make the classes balanced enough that min-maxing a "broken" PC would be much, much more difficult.

I see a few people getting frustrated by the arguments in this thread. It's not worth getting angry about, folks; if you start getting angry because someone is pushing your buttons, walk away from the thread for a while.

Yes, and I'm sorry, PC. I knew this or worse could happen when I started this. Though, now that I've quoted you, I know how to change the colours of my words. Huzzah.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Well if I buy a can of beens, I expect "beens" to be in the tin,

...

WHAT?!?

 

[librarius_arcana]

Yes, a ROLE-playing GAME.

GAMES have mechanics and rules. Those mechanics and rules are meant to be used to facilitate the "playing" of the game. To deride people for using said mechanics to make thier play experience better for them makes no sense.

If the role playing is all that matters then those player types should take up ACTING instead of playing a ROLE-playing GAME. Thankfully alot of rational people fall somewhere inbetween and can enjoy doing both, without putting down anyone elses play style.

But that's just internerd bravado for you I guess...

Please reread my prev posts,

The system is meant to be there to "SUPPORT CHARACTER PLAY" hence rpg, and not board game