Level Up (A5E) Why is non-magical flying so limited for PCs?

[W'rkncacnter]

I really think you are overestimating the perks that flight carries. I think I used it like once in a two-year campaign, it really is not as useful or gamebreaking as people think.

to be fair, when my kobold artificer got at-will flight (this was a homebrew artificer for o5e) i used it a TON. it didn't break anything, but it was extremely useful, even indoors.

 

[Distracted DM]

I really think you are overestimating the perks that flight carries. I think I used it like once in a two-year campaign, it really is not as useful or gamebreaking as people think.

So you play in a game where you basically never used your flight- that's fine! But as soon as my players get winged boots, or a carpet or broom of flying, or anything, they're now using that flight for every advantage they can get out of it.
It's not godly- but you clearly don't appreciate its benefits if you used it once in a two year campaign.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Like I said, there are many reasons that it's not a problem- but those are the easy answers on why it is.

But if one character has flight in a party, I can be sure that as far as bypassing challenges the flyer is going to be ferrying their party members all over. That's where having more actual rules for it would be useful, like those that @Steampunkette provided. But we don't have those.. as far as we can tell, it's no problem at all for a character to be lifting and carrying party members over obstacles; at least, in non-combat situations.

The answer for me is, you make those rules. I would for example find it quite unlikely that most flying medium size creatures could ferry the rest of their party over obstacles.

 

[Steampunkette]

You criticize me for punishing the player's fun, but these are far, far more anti-fun than anything I've proposed. There are certainly some logical restrictions to be had regarding carrying capacity and what not, but in a game where planars exist, limiting size makes no sense. Instead, you could just say that the larger the character,cthe larger the wings. If the passageway is too narrow, no flight. I really think you are overestimating the perks that flight carries. I think I used it like once in a two-year campaign, it really is not as useful or gamebreaking as people think.

I didn't criticize you for punishing anyone. I criticized you for making a dismissive post which sort of answered one of three valid issues and handwaved the rest.

And my response to planars existing is... "What's a planar?"

A Planetar is a Large Angel and so could swoop down and pick up a medium sized unwilling creature to drop them from 500ft. Is that what you meant?

Or do you mean Tieflings and Aasimar or other Planetouched Heritages? 'Cause those don't get Wings as a heritage trait or even gift, currently, and so it's really not applicable.

 

[Distracted DM]

The answer for me is, you make those rules. I would for example find it quite unlikely that most flying medium size creatures could ferry the rest of their party over obstacles.

Do we have anywhere to look to for examples of those rules? I now wonder if a5e does and I just haven't look for them when it's been called for
Or something that we can base them on.. or maybe that's what Steampunkette did and I should just make use of what she came up with, they seem good!
@Steampunkette have those gotten playtesting? Do they apply to characters with the Fly spell on them, wing boots, etc?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Do we have anywhere to look to for examples of those rules? I now wonder if a5e does and I just haven't look for them when it's been called for
Or something that we can base them on.. or maybe that's what Steampunkette did and I should just make use of what she came up with, they seem good!
@Steampunkette have those gotten playtesting? Do they apply to characters with the Fly spell on them, wing boots, etc?

I would say a creature can carry while in flight an object no bigger than one below their own size.

 

[Distracted DM]

I just looked over the a5e options with flight between the winged heritages, which are great because of their limits, and stuff like Broom of Flying, winged boots, and the fly spell.
I guess I'm pretty happy with it all! Don't want to rock the boat if I don't have to

 

[lichmaster]

A Planetar is a Large Angel and so could swoop down and pick up a medium sized unwilling creature to drop them from 500ft. Is that what you meant?

I like some form of verisimilitude and consistency in a setting and a ruleset. Flight can be profoundly transformational to both. I prefer to consider what kind of tactics can be employed by most creatures and societies to both take advantage of it and to protect themselves against it.

Getting snatched and dropped by a large flying creature should be a major concern for PCs IMO, but at the same time grabbing on a flying monster and attacking its wings so that it can fall while flying (while having some way to escape) should be a major concern for the monster too.
Also, readying actions to use nets, lassos, spells, or maybe specific equipment (a manacle with a heavy steel ball for example) should all be viable countermeasures, like using shields and cover is a countermeasure for ranged attacks.

At least, that's how I like my games and settings

 

[Steampunkette]

Do we have anywhere to look to for examples of those rules? I now wonder if a5e does and I just haven't look for them when it's been called for
Or something that we can base them on.. or maybe that's what Steampunkette did and I should just make use of what she came up with, they seem good!
@Steampunkette have those gotten playtesting? Do they apply to characters with the Fly spell on them, wing boots, etc?

They'd be Houserules of mine, but haven't come up because none of my players have tried to do heritages with at-will flight since A5e dropped. So I've never really had to consider it.

I like some form of verisimilitude and consistency in a setting and a ruleset. Flight can be profoundly transformational to both. I prefer to consider what kind of tactics can be employed by most creatures and societies to both take advantage of it and to protect themselves against it.

Getting snatched and dropped by a large flying creature should be a major concern for PCs IMO, but at the same time grabbing on a flying monster and attacking its wings so that it can fall while flying (while having some way to escape) should be a major concern for the monster too.
Also, readying actions to use nets, lassos, spells, or maybe specific equipment (a manacle with a heavy steel ball for example) should all be viable countermeasures, like using shields and cover is a countermeasure for ranged attacks.

At least, that's how I like my games and settings

Makes sense to me, yeah. I'd probably make it no more difficult than putting shackles/manacles on any other character and remind the table that gooses and ganders are a thing.

 

[Distracted DM]

I guess the natural counter to "attack its wings" is "so my creature can attack your characters legs to stop you from moving around so easily?" On the other hand I've seen some Level Up creatures ?wyverns? that lose flight when bloodied... I like that better, but not for every flyer.