Why is WotC trying to kill my FLGS?

[xechnao]

Why is that many gamers seem to have this belief that companies which publish RPG material should be trying to avoid trying to make a profit off their industry because it somehow, for whatever reason, tarnishes their image? I don't get it. Its what a company is supposed to do. To suggest that WoTC should or even could avoid massive sale facilitators like Amazon is absolutely ridiculous.

If you are albeit partially refering also to things I have said, I was never thinking about image (at the very least directly). But it is funny you used this word because it made me think that a lot of posters seem indeed worried about the image of industry companies, prominently Wotc.

 

[Stalker0]

Amazon has been reaping a swath of destruction through bookstores since its inception.

Just one small correction here. Its easy to see the business Amazon is now and forget that for several years after its inception Amazon continuously lost money. Many touted it as the reality that the online store model couldn't work.

It wasn't for several years after its inception that it started reaping before mentioned swath.

 

[frankthedm]

About two years ago, I moved to a place where I passed a LGS every day and I was initially excited about this prospect. However, they were literally drowning in old d20 stuff. None of it so much as discounted even a penny to help it move to clear up space. It was ridiculous. Eventually I got sick of seeing the same outdated products prominently displayed and having to dig for the newer stuff so I stopped going.

Unfortunately, that d20 chafe may have have represented a good portion of the store's profits. Buying product that turns out to be bad still costs money. At least by it being on shelf it makes the store look well stocked, might get bought someday and is ready for an insurance right off should an "accident" happen. If the shop discounts it, it will be willingly accepting that it lost money on d20 crap and opening up shelf space it might not have the cash to fill. Lots of stores did discount the d20 detritus & Outdated White Wolf Dung to get it out of the store, but not every LGS can afford/accept losses like that

If you were interested in any of the older d20 stuff at a store, try haggling. At worst the proprietor can tell you to leave.

 

[jeffh]

Man, that's stupid... IME, there are far fewer brick and mortar retailers for boardgames than there are for RPGs, and that's saying something. Those that do carry boardgames also can't carry as wide a stock, since by their nature they're large and take up a lot of room, so unless you're lucky or the game you're looking for is both recent and popular, you'll probably never find it on a store shelf without special ordering it...

This is 180 degrees removed from my experience. Of all the retailers I know of (in Houston, Winnipeg, Minneapolis and Edmonton, so by no means every big market, but a pretty decent sampling I should hope), I can only think of two that sell RPGs without also having a substantial amount of space devoted to boardgames, in many cases ranging from ancient Avalon Hill ones to the latest German stuff. One is pretty clearly a labour of love for those who run it, and the other is part of a big chain that specializes in other things entirely (magazines, first and foremost), such that it's the RPG selection they carry that's the surprise.

Compare that to the number of retailers that sell boardgames but not RPGs - namely, every toy store there is, including huge international chains like Toys R' Us (and those guys do carry at least a little of the more hobbyist-oriented stuff), and I think it's safe to say there are substantially more boardgame than RPG retailers. And that's ignoring things like Jogo stores and an increasing number of FLGS' that carry both, but with a decidedly heavier emphasis on boardgames.

And boardgames taking up more display space than RPGs? Not if you're doing RPGs right, they don't. Consider the number of supplements even a middling RPG like Mongoose's Babylon 5 one supports, and you quickly realize that RPGs are about as space-consuming even if you display spine-out by default, and vastly moreso if you're displaying the covers of even a significant minority of your stock.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I think it' s a good example. They are the other giant of the hobby. They sell minis and books. Wotc sells minis and books through amazon. If Wotc had a plan of selling to end customers they would do things more like Games Workshop does on this end.

You're not seriously suggesting WotC adopt Games Workshop's model for pricing in a thread about how expensive books from WotC are, are you?

Because that is just laughable.

 

[CleverNickName]

*sigh*

The retail environment has changed. Thirty years ago, if you wanted to buy something you either ordered it from a catalog or you went to the store and bought it off the shelf. Now, the catalogs have been replaced by web pages and the stores have been replaced by shipping warehouses. It is a superior business model because businesses get a larger distribution of their catalog, without the overhead costs of renting and staffing a chain of stores.

WotC (or Amazon) isn't trying to "kill" anything...certainly not your local game store, anyway. They are just another business, doing everything they can to be successful. Which means they must be as efficient as possible, keeping sales up and overhead down.

I know that the internet is hurting the FLGSs and other small, family-owned retailers...but there is little to be done about it. We can talk about the importance of customer service and loyalty, and there is much to be said for that. But at the end of the day, these smaller stores are using an outdated distribution system that is more expensive and less efficient than their competition. Unless they adapt, they will fail.

It's not personal, it's just business.

Oh, and IBTL.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

My FLGS drop 15% off the cover price. May not quite match amazon, but it's close enough that driving the 15 blocks to have the book now is worth it.

Smaller game companies, I actually order direct from them - more of the money ends up in the creator's pockets that way.

 

[Asmor]

This is 180 degrees removed from my experience. Of all the retailers I know of (in Houston, Winnipeg, Minneapolis and Edmonton, so by no means every big market, but a pretty decent sampling I should hope), I can only think of two that sell RPGs without also having a substantial amount of space devoted to boardgames, in many cases ranging from ancient Avalon Hill ones to the latest German stuff. One is pretty clearly a labour of love for those who run it, and the other is part of a big chain that specializes in other things entirely (magazines, first and foremost), such that it's the RPG selection they carry that's the surprise.

Compare that to the number of retailers that sell boardgames but not RPGs - namely, every toy store there is, including huge international chains like Toys R' Us (and those guys do carry at least a little of the more hobbyist-oriented stuff), and I think it's safe to say there are substantially more boardgame than RPG retailers. And that's ignoring things like Jogo stores and an increasing number of FLGS' that carry both, but with a decidedly heavier emphasis on boardgames.

And boardgames taking up more display space than RPGs? Not if you're doing RPGs right, they don't. Consider the number of supplements even a middling RPG like Mongoose's Babylon 5 one supports, and you quickly realize that RPGs are about as space-consuming even if you display spine-out by default, and vastly moreso if you're displaying the covers of even a significant minority of your stock.

If you're interested in continuing this discussion, I've forked it.

 

[TheWinslow]

I think WotC is trying to put my FLGS out of business. $35 is bad enough, but with the Draconomicon at $40 I don't have any real choice but to order it from Amazon if I want to keep up with the 4E new releases...

Suck it up, buttercup! It's only another 15 dollars (not counting shipping) to buy at MSRP.

Seriously, if you enjoy your store enough to want to keep it, an extra fifteen bucks shouldn't be that big of deal.

 

[Renshai]

I almost always make the choice to pay the extra five or ten dollars and get it from my FLGS.