D&D 4E Why Keep a Grid? Measurement in 4E

[Larrin]

anything that can be done on a grid can be done more realistically with a ruler and a piece of string. It just takes a lot longer to get anything done. A player can take forever to decide how many tenths of an inch he wants to be away from the orc, or he has to measure his distance from everybody and pick the exact spot that puts him right where he wants to be, or some one bumps a figurine and all of a sudden its not in range of the fireball, but it was before (no it wasn't). Arguments and tempers flare over split hairs, and things can really drag on while each player just gets the distances down, let alone decide what he's going to do.

and no, its not every time that rulers take forever, but theres always that one battle or session where you just leave with a headache.

If your group has the maturity and patience to use a ruler, it will work just as well (if not even more realistically) as any method. but it can REALLY bog things down if overthinking and pettyness creeps in. I've been scarred a little by rulers (in other games, not D&D). Grids are simpler, quicker, and good enough for most players.

 

[Asmor]

Grids are simpler, quicker, and good enough for most players.

QFT. I can understand why people would prefer a more realistic movement paradigm, but I'll take a simple, abstract system over a more complicated, realistic one any day.

 

[zen_hydra]

You measure yourself out a 6" length of string (or 5" or 7" or whatever your speed is). If you can put one end at your starting space and one end at your destination, you can move that far, no matter how squiggly the string. That part's easy, it's adjudicating things like threatened area, flanking, and power areas of effect that gets tricky.

Good idea (I am not a wargamer).

 

[frankthedm]

Well, for those whoplan on going gridless, here are some templates; Radius 2 fire, radius 3 acid / foulness

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

QFT. I can understand why people would prefer a more realistic movement paradigm, but I'll take a simple, abstract system over a more complicated, realistic one any day.

I don't think a gridless system is more complicated (no more complicated than using a ruler anyway) but I suppose it is ultimately more involved. Don't misunderstand me, I've never had a problem using grids, and I still don't. It just looks like 4E is really blurring the lines concerning the meaning of the grid.

For instance, is it really fair to say 1 square = 5 ft, when many times this will not be the case.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

i sometimes put dice on a grid and measure by judgement calls.

actually one thing i liked about the 3.0 game was: hey, i can use it to play a mini game (it didn´t work out that well!)

I hope minis are not required by default, but if combats becomes crowded, i need rules that let me resolve them fast.

 

[Asmor]

i sometimes put dice on a grid and measure by judgement calls.

actually one thing i liked about the 3.0 game was: hey, i can use it to play a mini game (it didn´t work out that well!)

I hope minis are not required by default, but if combats becomes crowded, i need rules that let me resolve them fast.

Well, if there's one thing D&D's known for, it's that large combats with numerous combatants are resolved quickly.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm thirsty so I'm going to do drink a glass of salt. And while we're here in Opposite Land, I think I'll also do my homework.

 

[Gloombunny]

I was briefly into Warhammer Fantasy Battles (the mini-based wargame) a few years ago. It uses tape measures and such for movement.

Measuring everything freakin' sucks. It slows the game to a crawl, and measuring by hand is frustratingly imprecise when you're trying to be tactical. I would not ever agree to play in an RPG doing it, and would walk out of an established game if the rest of the group decided to switch over to it. Life is too short to squint at a flexed tape measure all evening.

 

[Graf]

It would allow cheating?

It would make it hard to say whether someone was "blocking a doorway" or "line of sight".

People would wind up using the miniature instead of the map.

 

[KarinsDad]

One advantage of grid systems is for DM adjudication (or player ruleslawyering, take your pick).

Back in 1E days, we often did not use grids and sometimes did not use miniatures. And, someone would try something and the DM would say 'Sorry, you are too far away' and it would suck because the DM's perception of the situation was different than a player's.

At least with grids of some sort, that type of issue is minimized to some extent. The DM states that the PC is 50 feet away and outside of close range and either the PC is, or he is not. I find tape measures to be less precise because of hand movement and other issues (like the PC wanted to get as close as possible and someone made a mistake).