D&D 5E Why Lichdom?

[neogod22]

Also you quoted it saying "powerful liches," and that mainly pertains to liches that either spend most of their time traveling the outer planes or living out there, not all liches.

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[Sunseeker]

A lich who eats larva wouldn't necessarily be active in the world, just every so once in a while summon a night hag and trade something (like some magic doodad or knowledge) for a snack. Of course, even smart wizards who want to be liches don't really think how long forever is, and sooner or later they might run out of knowledge or doodads that night hags care about, and then they might have to search for alternative sources of souls. Of course, the lich might summon the hag, kill her, and steal the larva anyway, but sooner or later (probably sooner), the hags will decide to do something about that, and there are bribable things on the Lower Planes that even a lich might want to avoid a fight with....

Seems like sort of an off conflict of goals though.

There's all this talk in this thread about lich's who "just want to be left alone" like they're some kind of bullied child or something. When, in literature, in gaming, in anywhere has that ever been the background for a lich? A powerful wizard goes out, researches dark magic, tears his soul out of his own body, so he can...sit in his bedroom and read a book? It doesn't make any coherent sense to me that Person A would have the drive and desire to go through all of that...just to essentially do nothing. Yes yes I realize they're not really "doing nothing". But that's hardly a compelling story-telling feature, in-game element or what have you.

I mean, did your DM have you go through the fight with Acererak with him saying "You guys are such meanies all I wanted was to live in peace in my basement and read books!"

When has that ever been how a lich operated?

 

[neogod22]

Seems like sort of an off conflict of goals though.

There's all this talk in this thread about lich's who "just want to be left alone" like they're some kind of bullied child or something. When, in literature, in gaming, in anywhere has that ever been the background for a lich? A powerful wizard goes out, researches dark magic, tears his soul out of his own body, so he can...sit in his bedroom and read a book? It doesn't make any coherent sense to me that Person A would have the drive and desire to go through all of that...just to essentially do nothing. Yes yes I realize they're not really "doing nothing". But that's hardly a compelling story-telling feature, in-game element or what have you.

I mean, did your DM have you go through the fight with Acererak with him saying "You guys are such meanies all I wanted was to live in peace in my basement and read books!"

When has that ever been how a lich operated?

I think you're missing the point. When you have super genius levels of intelligence and immortality, your plans change from things that might develop in hours or days, to things that will take decades and centuries. The last thing you want are people coming in and ruining your plans, whether they be friend or foe. Do you think Acererak created the Tomb of Horrors in one day? Do you think it took a year? He probably spent decades planning the Tomb before even construction. He may have spent centuries creating the soul monger while the world thought he was dead. That's what liches do. They play the long game. It's like us humans to ants. We can plan what we want to do in 3-5 years, do you think an ant understands what a year is? No of course not. They only live for 5 or 6 weeks, if they don't get killed before then.

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[Mirtek]

When has that ever been how a lich operated?

Well, FR is full with ancient liches who have been more or less doing exactly that since forever. That's how they got so ancient. They one day became liches, retreated from the world of the living and never gave them any reason to bother them until they were entirely forgotten.

Most of the known active liches are actually mere apprentices in comparision to those quiet ancient liches. Mere children making a racket until they are inevitably slain for good by the living, while others are around since the time of Netheril for up to 3,000 years by simply chosing to never bother anyone during all this time

 

[Sunseeker]

Well, FR is full with ancient liches who have been more or less doing exactly that since forever. That's how they got so ancient. They one day became liches, retreated from the world of the living and never gave them any reason to bother them until they were entirely forgotten.

Most of the known active liches are actually mere apprentices in comparision to those quiet ancient liches. Mere children making a racket until they are inevitably slain for good by the living, while others are around since the time of Netheril for up to 3,000 years by simply chosing to never bother anyone during all this time

Chalk up another mark for why I never play FR.

 

[steeldragons]

I don't have my books in front of me, but unless 5e changed this, in re: cloning, aren't the clones "set" to whatever power level you are when they're made?...or maybe even some percentage thereof?

So, every time you'd be transitioning to a clone, you'd be taking a level hit...every time. Then have to build yourself back up...to be knocked back again when you need to move into your next clone...even if you're making new ones with each transition (so they'll be increasing some degree), you're never really going to be able to fully retain your power...or spend all of your time just making and waiting for new clones to come to fruition and switching bodies.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

I don't have my books in front of me, but unless 5e changed this, in re: cloning, aren't the clones "set" to whatever power level you are when they're made?...or maybe even some percentage thereof?

So, every time you'd be transitioning to a clone, you'd be taking a level hit...every time. Then have to build yourself back up...to be knocked back again when you need to move into your next clone...even if you're making new ones with each transition (so they'll be increasing some degree), you're never really going to be able to fully retain your power...or spend all of your time just making and waiting for new clones to come to fruition and switching bodies.

The 5e version just moves your soul and abilities at the time of death, so no power drawbacks. It's wise to include a spell book near the clone, however.

 

[neogod22]

This was a good video.
https://youtu.be/TwCk_HKsPM8

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[jasper]

Why Lichdom?
No more Avon calling. No need of beauty products!
Always get the senior discount at movies, insurance, and eating out.
Not only do you out live that cute cheerleader who turned you down, you out live their descendants.
Compound Interest baby!
Ability to explore any hobby in depth. You will git gud in 100 years of call of duty.
Lifetime memberships fees really pay out.
Lifetime discounts fees really pay out! I still buying a cup of coffee from McDonalds for 25 cents. (Mostly true story)
You can always pull what is in fashion out your closet. Well except for the big hair 80s look.
Coin collecting becomes easy! This is a 1048 silver piece in prime condition. I got by tpk the third adventuring party after I turned.
Long Cons become short cons.

 

[TBeholder]

Why would a powerful mage choose lichdom over having a living, breathing, younger clone to transfer into upon death?

…or a custom construct, if worries about diseases and other distractions outweigh feasts and wenches being an option?

So Saith Ed:
the “official but secret” design directives of the time were to avoid all “android and robot” flavouring in AD&D® because TSR was planning a robot roleplaying game, PROTON FIRE. Longtime DRAGON® readers may recall that it was featured in the back pages of just one issue of the magazine, as a preview; the game was “killed” on the very brink of its release by TSR’s upper management. So, just like de-emphasizing psionics in the Realms because they were to be a cornerstone of Dark Sun®, we were told to avoid mechanical/robotic/android/bionic elements for the AD&D® game. THAT’S why the embrace of undeath rather than the “build your own new body.”
As for the alternative “clone or birth your own new body and then move into it” approach, THAT ran afoul of the internal Code of Ethics

So the real answer, alas, is "historical (corporate) reasons".