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Why no low?

Ariosto

First Post
One thing I forgot, regarding 1st ed. AD&D: A score of 5 or lower meant that there was only one class permitted to a character. As every player-character had to belong to a class, it was not permissible to start a p.c. with more than one score below 6. (I figure that's before age modifiers al la the DMG).

Anyhow, I think that AD&D started a trend that went on further in the direction that fba827 described above.
 

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DragonLancer

Adventurer
For me it is because of ability damage/cursed items. Otherwise I want my players to have above-average (but not super hero) characters. They are meant to be the legendary adventurers that others dream to be IMO.
 

One thing I forgot, regarding 1st ed. AD&D: A score of 5 or lower meant that there was only one class permitted to a character.

Which class was that? I thought all classes required at least a 9 in one stat, with some (paladin, psionicist, ranger, etc) requiring higher stats.

On another note, in 4e, it's possible to play a viable character with 1-3 low stats, depending. Even a low Con isn't horribly crippling. (If you really wanted to be a dashing swordsman who collapsed after every fight coughing up blood, you could do so as long as your Strength score was still pretty good.)
 

Ycore Rixle

First Post
Because a stat distribution of 3-18 is too wide to actually use.

Gotta quibble with you there. Back in the ol' roll 3d6 days, except for strength, 1 out of 216 was the rarest you could get. It always bothered me that 1 out of 216 is not even close to Einstein's rarity, or even Lisa Randall's rarity, not to mention Peyton Manning or Cristian Ronaldo or Napoleon or... anyway, yeah, I just always felt 3-18 was too narrow. I liked Strength going up to 18/00.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Quote:
One thing I forgot, regarding 1st ed. AD&D: A score of 5 or lower meant that there was only one class permitted to a character.
Which class was that?

It depends upon which stat was that low- as I recall, with an Int of 5 or less, you could only be a Fighter. Someone with a Str under 5 could only be a Wizard.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
D&D is about playing exceptional heroes in a high fantasy setting. If you want to play ordinary dullards in a gritty reaslistic setting, play another game (or house-rule your D&D to death).

It ain't designed to represent gritty street-level grubby "how many rations do I have left?"; "oooh, that arrow really hurt!" types. It's about epic heroes who can fell dragons with a punch, scale mountains during their lunch break, and fall 500 ft and laugh it off.

It's a game of High Fantasy. You can artificially try to use its system to represent something other than that by modifiying it (to vary degrees of success, most often circumvented by the tactic of "buying a different game"), but that's not what it's designed to do.
 

Gotta quibble with you there. Back in the ol' roll 3d6 days, except for strength, 1 out of 216 was the rarest you could get. It always bothered me that 1 out of 216 is not even close to Einstein's rarity, or even Lisa Randall's rarity, not to mention Peyton Manning or Cristian Ronaldo or Napoleon or... anyway, yeah, I just always felt 3-18 was too narrow. I liked Strength going up to 18/00.

While Napoleon was (literally) a genius, in 3.x and beyond, you could simply give him lots of levels. (In 4e terms, he might be a high-level minion. I haven't read any tales about Napoleon personally kicking anyone's butt.) Create a skill to reflect his tactical acumen, put his highest stat in Int, give him a few leadership abilities and voila! Instant genius NPC! (While Napoleon was very smart, I kind of doubt he was a genius in every Int-based skill there is.)

For Peyton Manning, he doesn't need to have the highest physical stats, not if he's got a skill, some levels, and maybe a "monster ability" to crank that really high.

After all, while high stats are rare, high level NPCs are really rare too.

However, in 2e skills weren't dependent on level at all. DMs might have tried to replicate Napoleon by making a 1st-level fighter NPC with Int 18, but that wouldn't have been in the least bit satisfying, IMO.
 

InVinoVeritas

Adventurer
It depends upon which stat was that low- as I recall, with an Int of 5 or less, you could only be a Fighter. Someone with a Str under 5 could only be a Wizard.

This is true, and it led to some interesting situations. If your Str was 5 and your Int was 8, for example, there was no class you could possibly be. You could only be a Magic-User, but your Int wasn't high enough to be a Magic-User.

The worst was for Con 3-5 and Cha 3-5. Con 3-5 meant you could only be an Illusionist, so you needed to have Int 15 and Dex 16 minimum in any case. Cha 3-5 meant you were an Assassin (Minimum Str 12, Int 11, Dex 12, and you're Evil).

But, yeah, I've seen and played plenty of low-stat characters. Perhaps the biggest reason they've gotten rare is because of the "Start with 8, then point buy" method. If you roll for stats, or allow for a more flexible point buy, then yeah, you see them all the time.
 

Janx

Hero
I started in 2e, and stuck with 3.5e. We've always rolled 4d6 keep the best 3. (well, way back originally, the first few PCs were 3d6 arrange to taste)

In hardcore 1e, it was my assumption that you rolled 3d6 in stat order. So you got stuck with whatever you rolled on that stat. Definitely limits your choices when you roll low on a stat.

In 3e, the RAW had a sucky roll clause, which said that if your total bonus was 0 (or was it less than 0), you got to re-roll the stats. To me, that was acknowledgement that the game was not about sticking you with a crappy character.

I never liked point buy systems, as to me, that tended to make players do photo-copy PCs, where if one dies, their sibling with the exact same scores appears. I make my players create their PC at the table. No stable of pre-generated (and therefore optimized dice rolls) is allowed.

I also don't like rolling low, especially really low. I want my PC to have some variance in his stats, but having multiple boat anchors really blows.

I suppose a random scheme that created a stat within the desired range (8-18 or 10-18 maybe?), would prevent the "really" bad results.

From there, for variance, instead of rolling 6 times, roll 3 times, and use the inverse of the result for a 2nd stat.

Let's say we use 6+2d6 (8-18). If you roll a 10, the inverse is 4. So you'd have a 16, and a 10 stat result.

Thus, rolling high, gets you a low stat to counter it. Since there's a minimum.

In theory, point buy results in the same thing. The difference being the PC is still random.

I haven't tried this idea out, but its an interesting concept to me.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
You could always do something like 1d12+6 or 1d10+8 for stats, still getting you a high of 18 (pre-mod) while clipping the lows at a manageable 7 or 9.
 

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