Why, oh why...

[Mistwell]

Have you tried asking your DM to come up with a campaign-specific organization that fits what you are interested in, and crafting a PRC for that organization with your DM that makes you both happy?

 

[Nightfall]

Or just accept the fact that if you want cool storm powers, you need to be a druid.

 

[irdeggman]

Juast some full progression arcane casting Prestige Classes:

Complete Arcane (there is a table that list the ones with full progression on pg 18)

alienist
Argent savant
Effigy master
elemental savant
Geometer
Initiate of the Sevenfold veil
Mage of the arcane order
Wild mage

Complete Mage:

Abjurant champion
eldritch theurge (requires evocations too)
lyric theurge (bard class)
master specialist (wizard class)
ultimate magus (requires both sponataneous and memorized caster)
unseen seer

 

[Votan]

...does almost every prestige class designed for arcane spellcasters for one to lose 1+ caster levels?

Good game design?

The problem is that granting cool abilities has to involve some sort of cost and, in the absence of losing caster levels, there is little that an arcane casdter can sacrifice. Familiar progression or a wizard feat every 5 levels is a pretty meager trade-off. You can't lower the hit die, the BAB, the skill points or the saves in any realistic way.

So something has to give.

 

[WarlockLord]

Ah well, here's what I came up with:

Drow (using UA LA buyoff)Wizard 6/Mindbender 1/Fatespinner 4/Wild Mage 1 (with the Practiced Spellcaster Feat)

Yes, I know it is a cheap special ability buyoff. But thats what I was looking for...

He also has the Collegiate Wizard feat and Elven racial sub level (1st). He is the party's all-purpose spellcaster, and does his job well.

I'm going Wild Mage until I get Loremaster.

 

[Mistwell]

Good game design?

The problem is that granting cool abilities has to involve some sort of cost and, in the absence of losing caster levels, there is little that an arcane casdter can sacrifice. Familiar progression or a wizard feat every 5 levels is a pretty meager trade-off. You can't lower the hit die, the BAB, the skill points or the saves in any realistic way.

So something has to give.

In my opinion feats are pretty darn significant. You require some feats that the wizard would have otherwise not chosen, and that is a fairly high cost.

 

[Falling Icicle]

In my opinion feats are pretty darn significant. You require some feats that the wizard would have otherwise not chosen, and that is a fairly high cost.

This is true, the bonus feats are always something I have loved about playing a Wizard. Between metamagics, item creation feats, spell penetration, etc, you need all the feats you can get!

Sadly though, some prestige classes (*cough* Incantatrix *cough*) give the same number or even more bonus feats than one gets from 10 levels of Wizard, leaving little to no reason to stick with the Wizard class.

Sorcerers get nothing but a better familiar from their class levels, and the Aquire Familiar feat from CA let's you even get around that. So there is absolutely no reason to not get a prestige class as a Sorcerer unless you really hate prestige classes for some reason. Hopefully Sorcerers will get some kind of class features as they level in 4th edition.

 

[Victim]

Sorcerers get nothing but a better familiar from their class levels, and the Aquire Familiar feat from CA let's you even get around that. So there is absolutely no reason to not get a prestige class as a Sorcerer unless you really hate prestige classes for some reason. Hopefully Sorcerers will get some kind of class features as they level in 4th edition.

Actually, the reason is that sorcerers are awful at taking prestige classes. They don't have all the knowledge skills or many skill points so they have a tough time meeting the typical skill based prereqs for arcane casters. And they don't have bonus feats so it's harder for them to satisfy prereqs that involve burning feats.

 

[Mistwell]

This is true, the bonus feats are always something I have loved about playing a Wizard. Between metamagics, item creation feats, spell penetration, etc, you need all the feats you can get!

Sadly though, some prestige classes (*cough* Incantatrix *cough*) give the same number or even more bonus feats than one gets from 10 levels of Wizard, leaving little to no reason to stick with the Wizard class.

I think there is a basic flawed assumption there: that metamagic feats make one significantly more powerful than not having them.

Monte Cooks Aracana Unearthed/Evolved made metamagic feats essentially one feat. The Books of Eldritch Might essentially did the same thing before that for some classes. In my opinion after playing a bit with those rules, the lack of an unbalancing effect from those special feats cast serious doubt on some prior assumptions about metamagic.

The cost for using metamagic feats are built into the feats. Unlike some other useful feats for other classes, the cost is actually fairly high. I honestly think making metamagic feats each into their own feat rather than combining several into a single feat makes them often a weak choice relative to other options like craft wonderous item or spell penetration.

I know that is controversial. I know on paper it doesn't seem to be the case, and hundreds of people have had success choosing individual metamagic feats over the year and will feel compelled to defend their choices. Nevertheless, I think classes like the Incantatrix (which I like) are not overpowered simply because they offer more metamagic feats. All they are essentially doing is adding on new costly options to what in my mind should have been a single feat all along with all those options available right away.

I think the Incantatrix creates a DIFFERENT kind of wizard, one who alters the parameters of their spells in exchange for having fewer spell to cast and fewer spells to choose from due to specialization, over a straight wizard. I do not think this makes the Incantatrix more powerful than a straight wizard however - just more focused. And that's what a prestige class SHOULD do, focus a class.

I don't think it would be a slam dunk choice for anyone given the option between a straight generalist wizard and an incantatrix. It would depend on your campaign, and what you prefer to play. If you plan on adventuring the entire day rather than just for four-six encounters a day, I really think the generalist will do better than the Incantatrix unless you went for a Gish or long-term buffing strategy. It would be very easy with an Incantatrix to play a blaster who empowers/maximizes their spells, or heightens/chains enchantments for example, and end up running out of spells too early relative to the generalist wizard. It's certainly a valid choice for go for the burn-hard-and-quick strategy, but I don't think it's a choice that suits everyone, or that is obviously more powerful or better.

 

[Nightfall]

Warlock,

Uhm wow. That sucks! I mean if you wanted to use Drow, that's fine but Drow wizards, I'd say, generally go Archmage or else some other class that accentuates their skills, like Master Specialists or maybe Ultimate Magus.

Any case some interesting suggestions by the rest of you. Good going.