why orc pc?

[InVinoVeritas]

One other thing I've noticed: Orc PCs tend to be team players. Drow PCs tend to be loners.

Probably because of stereotypes, the orc "frat boy" is willing to hang around others and work with them in creating more carnage/chaos/whatever. Most Orc PCs will stick around with the rest of the party and be more than happy to lead the charge into battle and contribute their fair share to the party's success.

The drow, on the other hand, tends to be played as an attention getter. All attention on the drow, all the time. Drow PCs tend to sneak away from the party, go on their own adventures, do evil things for their own benefit, do good things for their own benefit, and generally do whatever it takes to remain in the spotlight, regardless of any specific personality quirk. The "drow with twin scimitars" is really the same character as the "trenchcoat guy with twin katanas."

Of course, these are just stereotypes, too. YMMV and all that. But that's really the crux of the "okay" orc vs. the "forbidden" drow that I've experienced. For all the belligerence that orcs are known for, in my experience, the drow PC will destroy taverns faster than the orc PC.

Ultimately, of course, the player makes the character, not the other way around. So I don't immediately assume that someone's trying to take all the glory based on their race choice. The same player would probably try the same thing no matter what.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Ultimately, of course, the player makes the character, not the other way around. So I don't immediately assume that someone's trying to take all the glory based on their race choice. The same player would probably try the same thing no matter what.

Exactly. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who don't realise that. So, instead of complaining about their crappy players and throwing them out of their gaming groups, they complain about choices possible within the rules.

 

[wildstarsreach]

He did. Didn't like it there.

I know but for me it would be fun in that drow do have a fancination with human assassins.

 

[prosfilaes]

Exactly. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who don't realise that. So, instead of complaining about their crappy players and throwing them out of their gaming groups, they complain about choices possible within the rules.

But the rules shape how people design their characters. If the big emphasis within the rules is on team work, then people are more likely to play team characters. You hand most people a race that's normally loners, then they're likely to play them as loners. I suspect there's a lot of mediocre players that can be lead to be better players, if people would discourage the races and classes that play into problematic characters.

And I don't know about your gaming situation, but the gaming group I play in has accreted from friends over many years, most of whom have been playing together for a decade now, and nobody is getting thrown out. Instead of throwing players out, we get rid of the book of Exalted Deeds and Frenzied Berserker, and are much happier.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

But the rules shape how people design their characters. If the big emphasis within the rules is on team work, then people are more likely to play team characters. You hand most people a race that's normally loners, then they're likely to play them as loners. I suspect there's a lot of mediocre players that can be lead to be better players, if people would discourage the races and classes that play into problematic characters.

If the player can't be led to be better players and not always play into racial stereotypes, why should I accomodate him by limiting my choices so he doesn't have to play a stereotype? Besides, if I ban drow, he'll only play a rude dwarf, stupid orc, arrogant elf or kleptomanic halfling.

And I don't know about your gaming situation, but the gaming group I play in has accreted from friends over many years, most of whom have been playing together for a decade now, and nobody is getting thrown out. Instead of throwing players out, we get rid of the book of Exalted Deeds and Frenzied Berserker, and are much happier.

If you ban books rather than resist the temptation of raiding them for stereotypes, that's your choice.

In our group, we allow more or less every book, and don't make too many limitations in regards to players' choices, because we know that it won't result in rude dwarves, arrogant elves, angsty dual-scimitar-wielding cg drow rangers, wizards with egg-timer eyes, and the likes.

We had a player or two who would seek out stereotypes (they didn't do Drizzt or anything, but they would unerringly home in on all the less desirable traits that race or class could have and blow them out of proportion, all the time claiming that they only "played their character"). We did boot them out of the group. Everyone was happier for that.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Another reason Thrall-clones aren't found in DnD are stat differences. Orcs from Warcraft should have bonuses to Strength and Wisdom and maybe Con, along with penalties to Dex, Intelligence* and maybe Charisma. This is quite a bit different from the 3.x orc, which has penalties to Wisdom!

One could probably get away with applying the Paragon template from ELH to Thrall, Jaina, and other characters who wind up being bosses.

Brad

 

[Desdichado]

i mean, why "yes" for orc pc and "no" for drow pc?

I dunno. I'd probably say yes to either. Are you saying that you believe that there's a trend of allowing orc PCs but denying drow PCs?

arent both "evil"?

Maybe. So what? I have evil PC's all the time. There's also no obligatory rule that orcs or drow either one must be evil.

i know we have lots of "drizzt"s outcasts as players, but isnt the orcs suppose to be as evil as drow, but not so inteligent/bright/good looking/organized?

I'm not following at all. It seems to me (possibly?) that you're saying that the fantasy stereotypes must be followed with regards to orcs and drow. I think.

In any case, if so, I disagree. Heck; the very first 3e D&D module that came on the little CD-ROM in the back sleeve of the PHB way back in 1999 or so had a tribe of non-evil orcs. So I think that the "orcses are always evil, so they shouldn't be PCs" fails as a maxim in every way possible.

 

[GreatLemur]

its kinda...cute

I'm guessing you didn't see any of the pre-pubescent sexual activity, then.

 

[rossik]

I'm guessing you didn't see any of the pre-pubescent sexual activity, then.

no...i just saw e dark little elf


Hobo, im not sugesting to follow stereotypes, just that we saw so much more orcs and half orcs then drow (btw, is there sucha thing as a half drow?)

 

[Warren Okuma]

i mean, why "yes" for orc pc and "no" for drow pc?

Orc=ECL 0
Drow=ECL way too much.

arent both "evil"?

Usually. Orcs tend to be evil, Drow tend to be evil to the player.

i know we have lots of "drizzt"s outcasts as players, but isnt the orcs suppose to be as evil as drow, but not so inteligent/bright/good looking/organized?

Yup. Competent evil is scary even if their racial template is much to expensive.