why play rogue/thief?

[drothgery]

My wife is now playing a level 1 thief - in her first battle she used all her powers and whacked a tiefling wizard for over 26HP.

As someone previously in this thread mentioned, even at level 1 she is pounding out more damage than our level 1 Cavalier.

FWIW - since a rogue (in any build) is a striker, and a paladin/cavalier is a defender, this is supposed to happen in 4e.

 

[twilsemail]

A level 13 thief can easily achieve a +25 vs AC attack (+5 Dex, +6 level, +3 prof, +3 enh, +2 expertise, +1 Talent, +2 CA, +3 backstab) that deals 6d6+17 (1d6 shortsword + 2d6 SA + 3d6 backstab + 3 finesse + 5 Dex + 3 enh + 2 expertise + 4 acrobat's trick) on a hit. That attack bonus should hit many level 13 monsters on a roll of 2 or more, for an average of 36.1 DPR.

Actually, I'd say a level 13 Thief should be hitting her choice of AC or Reflex with a +24 modifier on every attack and a +27 modifier on her Backstab attacks.

Math: +6 Dex, +6 level, +3 Proficiency, +3 Enhancement, +2 Expertise, +1 Talent, +3 CA

I don't particularly optimize all that much and I've got to admit that Deft Blade and Nimble Blade are two feats that will show up on every Thief's feat list. You're also likely to see Backstabber and Rapier Proficiency on there if you're focusing on damage.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Oh, and the Thief can do this four times each encounter. Martial Essentials builds tend to trade their nova potential for consistency.

Ding ding ding.

Leave "nova" to those classes that don't depend on their own physical power and skill, those that hang their hats on otherworldly powers and who shoot fire from their arses and such like. While those chumps are all "I don't wanna use my daily yet!", you're all "Bam. Here's my dagger working like an elephant gun." When they're all "Oh noes I've used up all of my novas!" you're all "I still have ammo for this elephant gun, because all of the ammunition is in my frickin' wrist."

This change is great, IMO.

It does potentially change the assumed flow of a battle -- your slayer or your scout or your thief will chug along reliably instead of swinging back and forth. That makes it EVEN MORE GREAT to me. I love having classes that actually have to use different strategies in resource management.

Some aren't going to like it, and for them, I'm glad the old rogue still exists and is still playable, but me and Lorzod, my Bugbear Slayer, are quite happy with our DPR. We're not lacking even a little.

 

[TarionzCousin]

In my experience, Essentials Thieves are much more "thiefly" than PHB Rogues. Rogues are almost a sub-class of fighter, in my opinion.