Why punish a player if they can't come to the game?

Dave Turner said:
What if every player at your table told you that they didn't mind if absent players got full XP, regardless of the reason for the absence? Would you institute a "full XP regardless of presence" policy?

Why would they mind? We're all friends, so noone would begrudge another player a "freebie". I'm sure they would all agree if I suggested players who miss a session get 1000gp and a +1 dagger, too, but thats not really the point, imho. :p
I dont think any of them would agree that a character who is played for 9 out of 10 sessions should be the same level as one who is played 5 out of 10 sessions. Whether they "minded" or not, the numbers dont lie.
Everyone misses a game now and then, so by and large, everyone stays at pretty much the same level by law of averages.
 

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Crothian said:
I wouldn't consider it a house rule, but a DMG blunder. They don't address the issue at all. They don't say that an absent player doesn't get full XP either, so its a house rule either way you cut it.

I consider that a "Table Rule" instead of a House Rule. Table Rules are generally things that constitute ettequite, meta-rules, and the like, whereas House Rules would be alterations to the RAW. "The DM holds onto character sheets" would be a Table Rule. When to award XP and how to award XP are also both Table Rules, to me. I find the DMG's lack of covering these things both expected and unfortunate.
 

Crothian said:
I wouldn't consider it a house rule, but a DMG blunder. They don't address the issue at all. They don't say that an absent player doesn't get full XP either, so its a house rule either way you cut it.
The DM's guide doesn't say an absent PC does NOT gain 5 levels automatically for missing a session either. I also dont see anything in the DMG that says I cant get double exp's for killing a monster with a papier-machet sword instead of an iron one. It does however say when you DO get exp and what FOR, and missing a game aint on the list! ;)
 

btw, the DMG does offer a few tips on nonattending players, and it recommends a PC either "fade into the background" or be run as an NPC.
Experience awards for NPCs are also covered.
 

There are a couple issues I’d like to understand

Why should in-game mechanics be used to deal with personal issues in the group?

Why do some people have issues with events occurring to PC’s that aren’t present (of course it’s much preferred they be). The characters are an integral part of the story and help me shape my plot and game world as much as I help them shape their characters. I don’t see the gulf between DM and PC that so many seem to. We’re both making the world; we’re both making the character, together.

Why is XP such a sore point with people? My game isn’t a job, it isn’t the military. I don’t see why you have to “earn your chops” or some other thing like that. It’s simply an activity friends do together. Why are people bothering to compare themselves to their fellow players, seeing how much XP they have and if they “earned” it? I’m not trying to find out who is the “better” player. Why does that matter? How does that add to the fun? Some has said, “such is life, if you miss out, you miss out.” I’m not looking for harsh real-life in my games; there’s enough of that already. The game should be about fun.
I don’t see XP as a reward, only another game mechanic to progress the story along. The important contributions I’m looking for from my players is them adding to the overall gaming experience. They do this by having interesting characters that are well role-played, not how many spells were cast or what monsters they happened to kill. In my games, I’m looking for a sense of wonder not XP. If all I wanted to see were the numbers on my character sheet go up, I’ll go play one of a million CRPGs.

Having characters fall behind in XP from the other characters doesn’t add to the game. It only decreases the fun. I’ve never seen an intense that it made a game better. The player who is left behind is unhappy, as is everyone else in the group because that character is less effective. I don’t see what it buys you.

Comparing D&D to chess or pretty much anything that isn’t a role-playing game is an exercise in frustration. There’s pretty much nothing analogous to role-playing in any sort of game. Monopoly, checkers, chess, risk, etc… all those are as unrelated to D&D as apples and uranium.

To answer some questions:
If a player doesn’t show, I don’t judge his excuse and figure how much XP he gets based on that. I don’t, expect a doctor’s note, or any other nonsense. I expect my players to be there for as many games as possible. If they miss so many games as to become disruptive, I’ll ask them to bow out of the game.

ThirdWizard I think your summary was pretty dead on.

Grimstaff you need to rethink your post. Many of us posting here have published game material, on Enworld it’s often safe to assume competence over incompetence (one of the reasons I love this site :)). Trust me, complexity isn’t the issue, neither is it a “weak spine.” As far as what the rules have to say about it… Rule 0: You get to decide how the rules work, which rules to use, and how strictly to adhere to them.
 

Grimstaff said:
Why would they mind? We're all friends, so noone would begrudge another player a "freebie". I'm sure they would all agree if I suggested players who miss a session get 1000gp and a +1 dagger, too, but thats not really the point, imho. :p
I dont think any of them would agree that a character who is played for 9 out of 10 sessions should be the same level as one who is played 5 out of 10 sessions. Whether they "minded" or not, the numbers dont lie.
Everyone misses a game now and then, so by and large, everyone stays at pretty much the same level by law of averages.
But it is the point, isn't it? Earlier, you said:
Grimstaff said:
But why oh why would you dole out exp for nothing?! Thats so unfair to the other players
If your players don't see it as unfair, then you seem to be suggesting that you would embrace the policy of giving missing players full XP. The players would be saying that they don't mind. They wouldn't be upset or feel like an injustice had occurred. So, theoretically, you'd follow the wishes of all the players and give out XP to missing players, right?

If you would still implement the "no XP if you miss the session" policy under those circumstances, then it can't be the case that you feel it's unfair to the players. There would be some unique personal reason that you would be levying the penalty. That's fine, but you wouldn't be able to use the "unfair to players" argument. ;)
 

Grimstaff said:
It does however say when you DO get exp and what FOR, and missing a game aint on the list! ;)

But the player misses the game not the character. The table says for all characters present, nothing about the players.
 

Grimstaff said:
btw, the DMG does offer a few tips on nonattending players, and it recommends a PC either "fade into the background" or be run as an NPC.
Experience awards for NPCs are also covered.

Ya, but those are not rules, that is advice for handling it. It can also be handled that the character plays a big role in the adventture and gets treated like the other characters.
 

Arravis said:
Why is XP such a sore point with people? My game isn’t a job, it isn’t the military. I don’t see why you have to “earn your chops” or some other thing like that. It’s simply an activity friends do together. Why are people bothering to compare themselves to their fellow players, seeing how much XP they have and if they “earned” it? I’m not trying to find out who is the “better” player. Why does that matter? How does that add to the fun? Some has said, “such is life, if you miss out, you miss out.” I’m not looking for harsh real-life in my games; there’s enough of that already. The game should be about fun.

This reminds me of the MMORPG mentality. You work hard at leveling, and that is your progress in the game. When you die and lose xp, players see it as work going down the drain. There isn't any enjoyment in playing the game, only a sense of accomplishment at gaining the next level or the newest item. You play the game because its the only way to get the next level or the cool item.

Having characters fall behind in XP from the other characters doesn’t add to the game. It only decreases the fun. I’ve never seen an intense that it made a game better. The player who is left behind is unhappy, as is everyone else in the group because that character is less effective. I don’t see what it buys you.

Good luck, I've been trying to get someone to tell me the actual benefit to the game that not giving xp to absent players gets you, and I havn't had any beneficial effects listed! :p

Whoa! I just got a flashback to stories of people making new PCs (ex: replacement for a dead PC) start at 1st level no matter what, even if the other PCs are 8th level or higher!
 

Arravis said:
Grimstaff you need to rethink your post. Many of us posting here have published game material, on Enworld it’s often safe to assume competence over incompetence (one of the reasons I love this site :)). Trust me, complexity isn’t the issue, neither is it a “weak spine.” As far as what the rules have to say about it… Rule 0: You get to decide how the rules work, which rules to use, and how strictly to adhere to them.

Why do I need to rethink my post? Because I dont agree with you?
And I'm one of the guys with published material, I dont feel that gives me the right to order you to change your opinion.
Your game style seems to indicate you favor the "storyteller" aspect of gaming, where the plot line is more important than the game itself. Cool, good for you.
Nonetheless, the rules seem pretty clear to me on the issue. My opinions are certainly clear to me. If you want to change things around in your game, why not? Its your game. That doesn't mean that the rest of us who enjoy the aspects of luck and points and such in our game are some kind of simpletons, nor are we punishing or penalizing anyone.
Would one of your player being a level or 2 behind the others wreck your story that much? Why do characters of different power levels offend your players?
I can think of plenty of good fantasy stories where the characters were of differing power levels. LotRings, Wheel of Time, Conan. Matter of fact, I cant think of any stories off the top of my head where all the characters were the same "level".
Maybe some variety would add a fun new element to your style of gaming?
 

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