Why saving throws? Why doesn't the attacker roll to beat your score?

[RangerWickett]

When you attack with a sword, your attack roll must beat your foe's AC. When you try to open a lock, you must beat the DC of the lock. True, sometimes there are opposed rolls, like when you're picking someone's pocket, but I wonder why d20 can't just go to flat resistances.

Instead of Fort being a roll you make in response to a spell, your Fort is 10 + class-based bonuses + Con + miscellaneous. Whenever a wizard casts a Fort save spell against you, he would roll d20 + Intelligence + spell level, and if he beats your Fort, you're affected.

Why wouldn't this work? Is there something about rolling to resist effects that is better than having the attacker make all the rolls?

Of course, I don't know what would happen in such a system when a person is trying to avoid heat stroke. There's no attacker to try to beat his Fortitude, so what would happen? I'm just curious about potential variant designs for game systems.

 

[Vrecknidj]

When you attack with a sword, your attack roll must beat your foe's AC. When you try to open a lock, you must beat the DC of the lock. True, sometimes there are opposed rolls, like when you're picking someone's pocket, but I wonder why d20 can't just go to flat resistances.

Instead of Fort being a roll you make in response to a spell, your Fort is 10 + class-based bonuses + Con + miscellaneous. Whenever a wizard casts a Fort save spell against you, he would roll d20 + Intelligence + spell level, and if he beats your Fort, you're affected.

Why wouldn't this work? Is there something about rolling to resist effects that is better than having the attacker make all the rolls?

What you're suggesting could work, it's just a mechanic. Whatever is used, so long as it's fair, is probably fine. A lot of players are probably attached to the idea of rolling their own saves by now, but that's just a quirk that would eventually fall off.

Of course, I don't know what would happen in such a system when a person is trying to avoid heat stroke. There's no attacker to try to beat his Fortitude, so what would happen? I'm just curious about potential variant designs for game systems.

The heat stroke would be treated as something that rolled to beat the PC's Fortitude, and the DM would just roll for it like he'd roll for an inanimate objecting "trying" to attack a PC in a trap.

Dave

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Why? Two reasons:

1) History. It's a sacred cow.

2) It's not a lot of fun watching someone else cast an instakill spell and you don't even get to touch your dice to do something about it.

Probably more of #1 than #2.

 

[Ranger REG]

When you attack with a sword, your attack roll must beat your foe's AC. When you try to open a lock, you must beat the DC of the lock. True, sometimes there are opposed rolls, like when you're picking someone's pocket, but I wonder why d20 can't just go to flat resistances.

Instead of Fort being a roll you make in response to a spell, your Fort is 10 + class-based bonuses + Con + miscellaneous. Whenever a wizard casts a Fort save spell against you, he would roll d20 + Intelligence + spell level, and if he beats your Fort, you're affected.

Why wouldn't this work? Is there something about rolling to resist effects that is better than having the attacker make all the rolls?

If the spell is a direct attack (equivalent to using a sword rather than a bomb), then I would not object to it any more than allowing a defender to forego using the AC value and make a defense roll vs. attack roll.

But it usually depends on how slow are you and your group willing to resolve combat.

Of course one has to wonder why isn't there a Magic Attack Bonus value?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I do believe the roots are in the "Don't I get to do anything about this fireball that just dealt all that damage?!" kind of thought. The idea is to have the players (rather than the NPC's) make as many rolls as possible to give the impression of luck/control.

Your way is perfectly fair, but relies on your enemy to fail rather than on you to succeed, and your success is more heroic, more fun.

 

[Rystil Arden]

You need to make the base 11 instead of 10 or you are cheating the player out of a 5% chance of saving. Otherwise, it is equally mechanically effective and just a matter of style.

 

[Kragar00]

I think it has more to do with giving the player the illusion of being able to resist these things...
If you use a resistance score (like AC) then the player may feel as if he is not in control of what does and does not happen to the character....
While if the player rolls the die, he has the illusion of being in control.... The illusion that he can do something to help his character....
I think it all comes down to giving the player a physical task in the game (rolling the die) to give them a feeling of control and participation in the game.... otherwise it's just the DM telling the player what his character does...

 

[Dirigible]

Your way is perfectly fair, but relies on your enemy to fail rather than on you to succeed, and your success is more heroic, more fun.

On the other hand, it gives the Pcs the chance to roll their 'magic save attack' die with vigour, rather than simply casting a spell and watching it boucne off the impregnable saving throw of the enemy. I think the tradeoff in fun exactly balances itself out.

I'm reminded of SAGA Dragonlance... in that, monsters pretty muhc never took actions... if the PC attacked a goblin, she made an attack action (which, I vaguely recall, invovled cards...). If the goblin attacked the PC, she made a defence action.

Of course, I don't know what would happen in such a system when a person is trying to avoid heat stroke. There's no attacker to try to beat his Fortitude, so what would happen? I'm just curious about potential variant designs for game systems.

Assign the heat a strength Just like setting a DC.

 

[Gez]

Of course one has to wonder why isn't there a Magic Attack Bonus value?

It's called "caster level", but is mostly used in such a context for spell resistance.

 

[Glyfair]

Of course, I don't know what would happen in such a system when a person is trying to avoid heat stroke. There's no attacker to try to beat his Fortitude, so what would happen? I'm just curious about potential variant designs for game systems.

It doesn't have to be the way it is, that's just the way it's done.

Heroquest from Issaries uses a system where the PCs roll for everything (of course, everything is a contested test as well)). The DM actually doesn't need any dice at all.