Why Shouldn't Martial Characters have powers?

[glass]

I agree with this sentiment. It's not wrong IMHO to have the option of warrior characters with something magical, but it should not be the default.

This is about the 27th time someone in the thread has said this. Where is it coming from?

Everything I have heard so far about fighters has been perfectly mundane (by any definition where a 3.5e fighter is 'mundane'). AFAIK, we don't have any evidence that overtly magical powers for fighters are the default (or even possible!)


glass.

 

[glass]

Why shift the definition of powers to include non magical specialty moves?

Er, because we are talking about D&D 4e, and the only powers we have seen any evidence of have been non-magical speciality moves?

When people are talking about the next edition of D&D, is it unreasonable to conclude that they are talking about the next edition of D&D?



glass.

 

[FireLance]

This is about the 27th time someone in the thread has said this. Where is it coming from?

Fear.
-> Anger.
-> Hate.
-> Suffering.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Barring the Death Touch and Punch Through Grave powers, Kill Bill gives a pretty good idea of how Wuxia I would be willing to allow high-level mundane characters to get. I think that a good number of abilities are completely fine (though I dislike the word "powers" for mundane abilities), including many of the things discussed in this thread, in the PHB2, ToB, and Iron Heroes. In fact, I use them already.

I also use a handy "cool effect" rule that works like this: You want to create a cool effect rather than do damage? Attack with a -5 to hit; your opponent might get an opposed roll. This covers most special combat manuevers, and doesn't require you to remember all of the exceptions.

Want to create a cool effect and do damage? Attack with a -10 to hit; your opponent might get an opposed roll against the effect, but not the damage.

As with Iron Heroes, you can roll with a -4 to give your opponent a -2 penalty on his next action, to the roll of your choice (described when you make your roll).

Because I use a weapon skill system (which I've posted on EN World somewhere....), a warrior can pump up his attack to make these sorts of things work, if he is skilled in the weapon type he is using.

My mundane monk replacement, the Shadowfist, gains all its powers from reading body language and understanding dance. The Shadowfist builds up energy for powerful blows, manuvers its target by careful dance steps, avoids blows with fluid grace, and is more powerful when they gang up on you.....

There are lots of good options for "mundane" characters that don't feel (to me, at least) like wizards in drag. I really hope that 4e uses them. This is one area, in fact, where I think it likely that my wishes will come true. If anything, some of the revealed wizard powers seem more "warrior in drag" than I would like.

RC

 

[Kahuna Burger]

This is about the 27th time someone in the thread has said this. Where is it coming from?

Everything I have heard so far about fighters has been perfectly mundane (by any definition where a 3.5e fighter is 'mundane'). AFAIK, we don't have any evidence that overtly magical powers for fighters are the default (or even possible!)

I'm just wondering where this stance comes from. In a setting game where over half the classes can wield magic, why is the poor man with the sword stuck maxing out at the human maximum, while the wizard is so much father beyound this. Why is it ok for a Wizard to level mountain, while if the Warrior does anything superhuman it's badwrongfun.

It's coming from people answering the question asked in the first post.

 

[AllisterH]

At the beginning, I was okay with that... but then, they started hopping through a forest (that's something I can grok, see the 3.5E jump skill), hacking apart trees while running (a bit pointless... but okay). Then they produced "shockwaves"... and at that, the video lost me (and I'm only talking about the powers they've showed, not about the aesthetics, like the sudden movements).

Counter-example: Have you seen Samurai Champloo, especially the last episodes, but also the fight with the blind assassin? That's higher level D&Dish to me.

Cheers, LT.

Yep (great show and I just love the narrator that comes in with those esoteric facts about the era and people) and I'm absolutely stunned people think Samurai Champloo would be considered *high-level*.

I personally considered that Jubei-Chan sword fight only around 14-15th level (using the 1E/2E/3E scale of D&D) when compared to what a wizard/cleric of the same level is capable of.

Samurai Champloo to me is 10th level at the HIGHEST for the final fight.

I see early Conan at 1st level, Conan during his thief days in the city as 3rd level, Pirate Conan as 5th and finally, King Conan at 7th when compared to the capability of the equivalent level wizard.

By 15th level, the fighter should be fast enough that he can literally walk on AIR, have enough strength and speed that just swinging his sword can blow away mooks because simply put, his companion was doing that 10 levels back.

Anyone remember Remo the Destroyer flick where the guy walked on wet cement?

 

[AllisterH]

In 3.x, such items where neccessary. Iron Heroes showed you can redesign your classes so they don't need them. And it also showed you can give them powers that don't feel magical, either.

.

While I'm a fan of Iron Heroes, it should be noted that IH works best in a setting where there are no D&D mages analogs.

Seriously, unless the 4E Seriously nerfs the capability/power of magic, "mundane" characters will be at a disadvantage compared to magical characters.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Anyone remember Remo the Destroyer flick where the guy walked on wet cement?

I love that film. Mind you, he's a monk, not a fighter.

As hong says, everything's okay provided the fighter can't do it.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Anyone remember Remo the Destroyer flick where the guy walked on wet cement?

Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins? Yup.

And I would hardly say that there is no place in D&D for such abilities, but this seems more a facet of mystical training (forget the name of his Korean trainer) than something strictly "mundane".

IMHO, of course.

RC

 

[AllisterH]

I love that film. Mind you, he's a monk, not a fighter.

As hong says, everything's okay provided the fighter can't do it.

I honestly am stunned that many people don't think a fighter should eventually by level 15 be able to master his body and move over mud/water/air as he could walk on regular ground back when he was level 1.

For those interested, here's the Samurai Champloo fight that Lord Tirian was referring to.

What level are these guys on the docks?

Personally, I'd say no higher than 10th (and that's me being generous...)