D&D 5E Why sleeping shouldn't be a long rest

[Don Durito]

Which is what the OP was talking about. When traveling, the frequent long rests, the casters seemed to outshine the others, but in dungeons, etc. when long rests were harder to come by, it seemed more balanced. And now the OP wants to extend the long rest to 36 hours, which with all other things consistent will nerf them, which is also why the OP said the caster players were complaining.

As far as the actual time, otherwise, yeah I agree it doesn't matter. Which is why I've posted the "adventuring day" is really just the time between long rests and has nothing to do with actual time.

But it's not nerfing them unless it's preventing them from taking long rests in the dungeon situations. Which it probably won't, unless they were previously able to take long rests within the dungeon. If it means they have to leave the dungeon to take a rest - than it probably doesn't really make a difference.

I'm assuming the OP is happy with rest pacing in dungeons and isn't particularly looking to change it - it's just the inevitabilty of nightly resets during wilderness journeys that's the problem.

 

[S'mon]

Of course they do, it’s just that the outcome is certain. The PCs will crush them. Or if the monster is too high level it will crush the PCs.

The tables are so you can dial up encounters whose outcome is theoretically uncertain, i.e. the PCs might lose. As you get to know your players of course you can tweak the knobs a bit to ensure you present the desired challenge.

Now an encounter with a low level enemy doesn’t necessarily have to result in combat. If the enemy is smart they’ll try and get out alive, but to go through the motions of entering an actual D&D combat when the outcome is a foregone conclusion? What’s fun in that? Just narrate it and move on.

Uncertainty is where the fun lies IMHO.

With the XGE tables I either decide what threat level the area is, or I use the high level tables for continental travel, mid tables for national, low tables for local, so threat equates to travel scale.

 

[Don Durito]

I've always found that occasionally you need the PCs to curbstomp someone just to show how badass they've become.

Otherwise it feels like they're just on an endless treadmill.

 

[Salthorae]

With the XGE tables I either decide what threat level the area is, or I use the high level tables for continental travel, mid tables for national, low tables for local, so threat equates to travel scale.

This is a really cool way to go about travel and encounters.

I've always found that occasionally you need the PCs to curbstomp someone just to show how badass they've become.

Otherwise it feels like they're just on an endless treadmill.

Agreed. Having easy encounters lets the PCs feel like they're making it in the game world. Especially if you reprise some monster or encounter that was difficult or deadly to them a few levels earlier so they have a really nice comparison point.

 

[S'mon]

This is a really cool way to go about travel and encounters.

When my son's flying dragonborn travelled thousands of miles to sell an artifact to the Green Empress of Viridistan, I combined rolls on the Tier IV XGE tables with static encounters from the Wilderlands of High Fantasy - everything from goblin wolfriders to a mammoth herd to a demigod-shark monster. It certainly helped the world come alive! You can get a similar effect by including some low-level table rolls along with higher level, but maybe rather than a few goblins it's a goblin warband or citadel.

 

[miggyG777]

Which is what the OP was talking about. When traveling, the frequent long rests, the casters seemed to outshine the others, but in dungeons, etc. when long rests were harder to come by, it seemed more balanced. And now the OP wants to extend the long rest to 36 hours, which with all other things consistent will nerf them, which is also why the OP said the caster players were complaining.

As far as the actual time, otherwise, yeah I agree it doesn't matter. Which is why I've posted the "adventuring day" is really just the time between long rests and has nothing to do with actual time.

They complained, because in a certain subset mode of play (low frequency encounter days), they were always overpowered compared to the other classes.
And I brought them back to the level of power they ought to have, according to the DMG, which is 6-8 encounters without a long rest, across any scenario.

 

[robus]

I've always found that occasionally you need the PCs to curbstomp someone just to show how badass they've become.

Otherwise it feels like they're just on an endless treadmill.

Sure, but I find that happens anyway due to my not being able to foresee every possibility they might come up with. And they feel pretty slick about it Of course it helps that they're now super high level.

 

[DND_Reborn]

They complained, because in a certain subset mode of play (low frequency encounter days), they were always overpowered compared to the other classes.
And I brought them back to the level of power they ought to have, according to the DMG, which is 6-8 encounters without a long rest, across any scenario.

Ah! Ok, I see your point. Well, if that is the case for their complaints, a period of adjustment is naturally in order.

However, in another post didn't you talk about giving them other things to do, just as using scrolls or something? If that is the case, they are still using spells and you aren't really changing much, are you?

Another option to consider, which is a house-rule we use, is allow casters a partial recovery of slots on a short rest. Now, someone once suggested something akin Arcane Recovery, which IMO is too little at low levels and too much later on. What we do at our table is this:

Spell Slot Reserve (any class with the spellcasting feature)
When you finish a short rest, you regain a number of spell slots equal to your proficiency bonus, to a maximum of the number of spell slots you normally have. Once you use this feature you must finish a long rest before you can use it again.

Now, this is big at really low levels. Won't lie. But it encourages casting non-damage spells and makes casters feel more magical. At mid- and high-levels, it is a nice boost.

Example. A 2nd-level Bard has 3 1st-level slots available normally. He can replenish two slots after a short rest. Strong, huh? Yep. But once those are gone, they are gone.

Example. A 9th-level Sorcerer has 4, 3, 3, 3, 2. He could get back one 4th-level spell, a 1st and 3rd, or any combination that adds up to 4 (proficiency bonus is +4 at 9th).

With your longer long-rests and more encounters across any scenario, this would help the casters later on but not make them super powerful. If you don't like the idea of giving it to low-level characters, delay the feature until 5th level when warriors get Extra Attack.

Anyway, just a thought.

 

[Warriormon87]

I am running a detective game, so, it is much harder to keep the pace up such that the players don't rest after every encounter and since an investigation likely will span multiple days, there isn't a lot to stop them from taken 8 hour long rests like a normal adventurer would take short rests.

What I am doing:

Rests

I based rests off of real life health & wellness knowledge.

Short rest is a night's sleep (~8 hours, if less than 8 hours, then the remainder is spent resting). Short rests are once per day.

Long Rest is the weekend, it requires at least 1 day off of full rest. Long rests can only be taken once a week.
My game is an urban game, where the players have jobs, the need a day off of work from that job as well as other strenuous activities to benefit from the rest.

Real life health & wellness basis: Short rests are based on a natural sleep cycle; Long rests are because people need a day off every 7 days in order to properly recover.

As for why I changed the basics from gritty realism. I think requiring someone to take a full 7 days off to benefit from a long rest is both unreasonable and unrealistic. Your average person would not be able to take a 7 day vacation every time they want to recover spell slots. (Setting is Ravnica, there are a lot of working class spellcasters.)

Hit Dice you recover half your hit dice per week.

Durations

Durations are changed so that they still match up with the same things with new durations. This applies to any spell or effect with a duration. I'm just going to call them all spells here to save space.

If a spell has a duration of 1 hour it has a duration of 8 hours instead. That way those spells can still last the length of a short rest.

If a spell has a duration of 8 hours you choose when you activate/cast the spell between
A) a duration of 2 days instead. So it is still 1/3rd of the day, and the duration of a long rest. If you cast the same spell 3 times in the same 7 days, the third casting lasts 3 days. That way you can still spend 3 spell slots to keep those spells going at all times.
B) a duration of 8 hours but the spell returns every day at the same time until you finish your next long rest. That way you can still use one spell slot per long rest to have the spell protect you while you sleep each day.

If a spell has a duration of 24 hours, it lasts 7 days. That way one casting per long rest still keeps it going. Anything requiring a spell to be cast every 24 hours, needs to be cast every 7 days instead. For example, Animate Dead, requires you to recast it on your undead every 24 hours to maintain control of them, so now that requirement is every 7 days.

If a spell has a duration measured in days, it is measured in weeks instead.

If a spell spell has a duration less than 1 hour, nothing changes.

 

[Flamestrike]

I am running a detective game, so, it is much harder to keep the pace up such that the players don't rest after every encounter and since an investigation likely will span multiple days, there isn't a lot to stop them from taken 8 hour long rests like a normal adventurer would take short rests.

Doom clocks.

Being detectives, there should be clear time limits imposed on them before the case goes cold (the bad guy escapes, another victim is murdered, the evidence is corrupted, the trail runs cold etc)