Why Startrek is Dead (Opinion Thread)

[Darth K'Trava]

Why is Star Trek in decline, if not dead?

Because it's no longer TNG, the only good Star Trek there's been.

I don't mean this as a troll post; that's really what I think.

The original was campy.
DS9 was boring.
Voyager was ... well Voyager was okay.
Enterprise is just ... wrong.

I like the original Trek. It's what got the whole thing started..... sure it may look "campy" today but seems to have held up pretty well over the years...

DS9 was pretty cool, especially the last few years when they redid how they approached it-by more story arcs and complex storytelling.

Yoyager wasn't too bad in the beginning, despite the Kazon who looked like someone crapped in their hair! Then it went downhill.

Enterprise wasn't too bad. The main thing from the 1.5 seasons I saw (first and some of this one) is that it looks too advanced for the time period it takes place (but then alot of that is the new FX we use today we didn't have previously).

 

[Ranger REG]

Why is Star Trek in decline, if not dead?

Because it's no longer TNG, the only good Star Trek there's been.

I don't mean this as a troll post; that's really what I think.

There are those who disagree, when they took a second look at TNG.

But at the time (1987-1994), it was a welcome change for the Trekkies in the US and eventually everywhere, after a 20-plus-year hiatus.

The original was campy.

Great storytelling, using social issues of that time, particularly issues that tends to be timeless, like racism, blatant disregard for human right, etc.

DS9 was boring.

Great story and character development.

Voyager was ... well Voyager was okay.

It was decent up until Jeri Ryan ("Seven of Nine") joined the cast and Brannon Braga was named a replacement for executive producers Michael Piller & Jeri Taylor. Then it began to sucks big time. I called it Braga's First Failure.

Enterprise is just ... wrong.

Tried to give Braga a second chance, but he failed me again with this silly "Temporal Cold War" main arc (Braga's Second Failure). He should have learned his lesson from VOY: He doesn't do time travel stories well. The only bright thing: Having Manny Coto took over the operation of the show for this unfortunately fourth and final season. Like DS9, better stories and better character interaction than the previous three seasons, with more room for improvements.

This is not a troll-feeding post, just my opinions.

 

[John Crichton]

Ranger (and others) - Have you by any chance read this article:

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/444/444306p1.html

It is a fantastic interview with Ron Moore. He talks about Carnivale and BSG, but the best stuff is where you get his dirt on Trek. He was there for 10 years and really knew B&B. It really says alot about why Trek has become so sterile, especially since DS9 signed off.

The most revealing thing to me, as well as the most dissappointing: They had enough material for DS9 (including unfinished arcs) to go at least 2 more seasons. I recall commenting to a friend while watching the final eps when they originally aired that it seemed the show had plenty left to do. The 7th seasons of TNG & DS9 were so far apart in terms of quality that it seemed so arbitrary to end it at season 7. The article goes into the possible " whys."

I'd cut-n-paste it here but the interview is 18 pages long...

Berman obviously doesn't "get it" and never got it, even from the start. Kinda makes you wonder what might have been. I really agree with Moore when he talks about Voyager's concept being good. Farscape was basically the same thing, done right. Eliminating all the crew conflict made Voyager unwatchable, IMO. I'll blame Berman and Paramount for that. TNG could have been edgier, too. Man, what I wouldn't give to have Trek back with some conjones.

 

[John Crichton]

Why is Star Trek in decline, if not dead?

Because it's no longer TNG, the only good Star Trek there's been.

I don't mean this as a troll post; that's really what I think.

The original was campy.
DS9 was boring.
Voyager was ... well Voyager was okay.
Enterprise is just ... wrong.

Ranger said it better in his reply than I could.

It's too bad you didn't like TOS & DS9. Both series were excellent.

 

[mojo1701]

I'd cut-n-paste it here but the interview is 18 pages long...

Berman obviously doesn't "get it" and never got it, even from the start. Kinda makes you wonder what might have been. I really agree with Moore when he talks about Voyager's concept being good. Farscape was basically the same thing, done right. Eliminating all the crew conflict made Voyager unwatchable, IMO. I'll blame Berman and Paramount for that. TNG could have been edgier, too. Man, what I wouldn't give to have Trek back with some conjones.

It's interesting to note that most fans complain of both Berman and Braga. Moore confirms of what's said about Berman, but Braga is quite good. From what I've read (other than this interview), Braga really isn't that bad (despite throwing in Bozeman, Montana references).

 

[Altalazar]

It sounds like ST needs fresh blood, or someone like Ron Moore calling the shots. I think he's right that they need to let it lie fallow for a few years, then bring in fresh blood to do something totally different with it - they had themselves too walled into basically an alternate reality known as "boring space" where everything is safe and everyone is perfect.

 

[Orius]

Berman obviously doesn't "get it" and never got it, even from the start. Kinda makes you wonder what might have been. I really agree with Moore when he talks about Voyager's concept being good. Farscape was basically the same thing, done right. Eliminating all the crew conflict made Voyager unwatchable, IMO. I'll blame Berman and Paramount for that. TNG could have been edgier, too. Man, what I wouldn't give to have Trek back with some conjones.

It certainly was an eye opener. All this time I was tending to blame Braga more, and it seems things were the other way around. It was Berman that wanted to ignore TOS, while Behr, Moore, and the others were fans of the original, and actually paid it homage. In my mind that is why DS9 is one of the best Trek series, because it tried to go back to its roots while going forward. That's why the Voyager crew and the Maquis always played nice after the first half dozen episodes, even if there was no reason for them to do so. I guess that explains Enterprise's rather weak start as well, at least until Coto (another old-school fan) came in and revived it. In the end, Berman played things too safe, and ignored the original series too much that he ended up alienating the fans.

 

[mojo1701]

Braga, compared to Berman, is quite young.

 

[Laurel]

I don't think Star Trek is dead, but is it in decline in that the obsessed fans ares till obsessed but those just interested will let it fade from memory and it's certainly not gaining large amounts of new people.

I think would be easy for it to gain a whole new following and gather all those original people back if they came up with something new that catered to everyone. Somehow the orginial brought that first group of fans in, and TNG played off that. They also were able to draw bunches of other people in by thier new take on drama, action, special effects, and story line. The following series highlighted parts of these things, but none (in my opinion) could capture it all. DS9 did a good job for awhile of trying, but the others just pushed people away.

If they give us something good to watch I think Star Trek would see a fast and great revival.

 

[Ranger REG]

Ranger (and others) - Have you by any chance read this article:

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/444/444306p1.html

It is a fantastic interview with Ron Moore.

Actually, I think I can top that. Fandom posted a 7-part interview with Ron D. Moore back in 2000. Of course, the web site is no longer there, but Cinescape was kind enough to archive the lengthy article.

This begins part 1 interview:

http://www2.cinescape.com/0/Editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Television&action=page&obj_id=18708

The introductory article starts off with his goodbye letter dated 1999. Of course, this is all before he did Carnivale and the current Battlestar Galactica.

He's not the only one having problem with the Star Trek franchise's leadership. I can try to google a posted interview from David Gerrold, on his history with Berman.