Why the beer hate? (Forked Thread: What are the no-goes...)

[Fifth Element]

I don't understand this kind of thinking at all. You'd decline and otherwise great game because someone might potentially have a drink and become obnoxious. I might potentially rape your dog, the dm might potentially hold you hostage and demand 10,000 12 siders as ransom. How can you go or do anything without the potential for something bad happening? You could get ran over in the driveway, does that stop you from getting in your car?

Hyperbole never helps. Unless you honestly think that a person raping your dog is more likely than a person being obnoxious when he drinks.

Bumbles has stated, repeatedly, that it's not about eliminating all risk, it's about controlling the risks that can be controlled. You seem to think this hasn't been explained on several occasions.

 

[Bumbles]

Bumbles has stated, repeatedly, that it's not about eliminating all risk, it's about controlling the risks that can be controlled. You seem to think this hasn't been explained on several occasions.

And FWIW, an umbrella is an effective response to the risk of rain. Not to mention checking the weather reports. At least in regards to most picnics. For something more important, like a wedding or a space shuttle launch, I'd suggest another plan.

This is much like gaming. Instead of giving up all gaming, I remove the risks that bother me, instead of trying to solve everything or nothing.

 

[billd91]

Wow. This discussion has certainly taken an interesting turn. Just so I can be sure I understand it, if there's this conversation:

Bill: Hey Ted, we're having a great game of D&D and we have an opening. Are you interested in playing? Oh, by the way, we have a couple folks in it who have a beer while we're playing every so often.

Ted: Sorry, Bill. I make it a point of not gaming where there might be alcohol involved.

In this case Ted has somehow offended Bill?

How the subject is brought up matters a lot. If it had unfolded that Ted said that he does it because he can't trust people's behavior in an environment with alcohol, then I think I would start to get offended. In this case, the offensive behavior isn't turning down the invitation as much as it is treating us prejudicially because we happen to drink some alcohol while gaming. Were I Bill, I'd probably never call Ted back.

If Ted had simply said that he really doesn't like beer/alcohol - the smell - and so on, I'd come away with a very different opinion of Ted and what he thinks of me and my players. In this case, he would be disliking the alcohol rather than disrespecting me and mine.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Here you go:

And I'm sure, when you reread it, you noticed that I didn't say that Bumbles suggested anything about a picnic. Right?

I'd suggest that Mistwell is attempting to exert social pressure by calling the choice to not attend rude. Etiquette is all about social pressure, the fear of being looked down upon if you don't behave in a certain way.

And I'd suggest that Mistwell is simply pointing out that the social conventions already exist.

You even implicitly acknowledge that, when you point out "the fear of being looked down upon." That fear is self-exerted, due to prevailing social conventions. Which Mistwell is pointing out.

Most people adhere to most social conventions due to that fear, not due to someone pointing out the social convention. Failure to adhere to social conventions is what we, as a society, call "rude" or "eccentric" or "damned peculiar."

 

[Bumbles]

If Ted had simply said that he really doesn't like beer/alcohol - the smell - and so on, I'd come away with a very different opinion of Ted and what he thinks of me and my players. In this case, he would be disliking the alcohol rather than disrespecting me and mine.

I'm not going to lie to someone and give them a convenient reason to get them to do what I want. Besides, I can imagine somebody say "But I love the smell of beer, you should love it too" or even claim that surely I can't smell it...which oddly, goes back to the discussion involving smoking, where people were arguing over whether or not one could smell smokers.

I'd just say "It's not about you, it's about the problems alcohol can cause which I don't want to deal with after they happen, so I'd rather avoid them entirely" and either you could accept or you couldn't. If you can't, what can be done to convince you otherwise?

If this thread is any guide, it seems for many people, it's nothing. Fair enough, none of the arguments presented so far have swayed my position. Some have even reinforced it. Go figure.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

What more do you truly need than "Based on past negative experiences with people drinking alcohol, and the problems of dealing with that, I choose to avoid the problem" ?

Yeah, I hear you, man.

Dude I knew back in Kentucky once told me, "I got mugged by a black guy once. It really scared me. I don't game with black guys anymore."

I always thought he was being a prejudiced dill-weed, but you've opened my eyes.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Hyperbole never helps.

"Never, ever, super-duper double-dog never," or just plain "never"?

 

[SteveC]

Yeah, I hear you, man.

Dude I knew back in Kentucky once told me, "I got mugged by a black guy once. It really scared me. I don't game with black guys anymore."

I always thought he was being a prejudiced dill-weed, but you've opened my eyes.

We are coming precariously close to Godwining this thread. Are you really sure this level of hyperbole is really necessary?

 

[catsclaw227]

Besides, I can imagine somebody say "But I love the smell of beer, you should love it too" ...

Honestly, I cannot imagine a mature adult saying this. Has this actually happened to you before? And did the person say it with a straight face?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Are you really sure this level of hyperbole is really necessary?

"Really, really, super-duper double-dog really"? Or just plain "really"?

I don't see any hyperbole. Aside from the "you've opened my eyes," my post was 100 percent true. It was one of the more jaw-dropping examples of prejudice I've ever experienced. It's certainly more egregious than this particular example of prejudice, but then, I also called that guy's behavior much worse things than "damned peculiar."