D&D 5E Why the claim of combat and class balance between the classes is mainly a forum issue. (In my opinion)

Hussar

Legend
What is the Int for this MU? IIRC with a decent Int say 15 or more you learning chance is about 75%. If you've failed on that many spells you should have succeeded on about an equal number.

I thought spells were supposed to be hard to find in 1e. It looks like this 5th level PC has found about ten spells per spell level.
 

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Bluenose

Adventurer
What is the Int for this MU? IIRC with a decent Int say 15 or more you learning chance is about 75%. If you've failed on that many spells you should have succeeded on about an equal number.

I thought spells were supposed to be hard to find in 1e. It looks like this 5th level PC has found about ten spells per spell level.

75% is Int 17 (and a Max of 14). At Int 15 I think it's 65%. At least, that's the case in 2e (I'm playing an Int 17 Mage at the moment). Though I'm not sure about chances to re-learn the spell, as I thought it was something you could retry every level - that may be a 2e optional rule, though.
 

Judging by your spell list, it looks like you might be using Unearthed Arcana. If that's right, you need a Gem of Insight, don't you!

Also, can't you try and learn those spells by researching them yourself? (That works in 2nd ed AD&D, I believe, but I would expect also in 1st ed AD&D.)

I recently ran a low level mage in 1E after playing mainly 2E and 3E, he died early on, and i dint have my book on hand to check the rules, but the way you got magic seemed mich more strict and tight than 2E. This was a couple of months back, so might be wrong, but recall being surprised by it.
 

Hussar

Legend
But, that's my point here. If JRRNeiklot's chances are even 50/50, then he's got a bloody full spell book at 5th level. We're talking several spells per spell level. That or a REALLY bad string of luck.

I never found spells to be all that rare in 1e or 2e to be honest. Scrolls (which could include multiple spells) were commonly found in treasure hoards. Heck, several of the treasure types give some number (usually 1-4) of randomly determined magic items (which could include scrolls) plus a bonus scroll on top.

Never mind that if you killed a magic user, the first thing you did was try to find his spell book. A couple of dead MU's and you've got a pretty wide selection of spells. Remember, there were a LOT less spells in the system then. What, 20 1st level spells? You had pretty good chances for getting the spells you wanted in any randomly generated treasure.
 

ForeverSlayer

Banned
Banned
I never found spells to be all that rare in 1e or 2e to be honest. Scrolls (which could include multiple spells) were commonly found in treasure hoards. Heck, several of the treasure types give some number (usually 1-4) of randomly determined magic items (which could include scrolls) plus a bonus scroll on top.

I had the opposite effect. I remember begging fellow mages if I could copy their spellbooks and searching every library I came across.
 

Hussar

Legend
I had the opposite effect. I remember begging fellow mages if I could copy their spellbooks and searching every library I came across.

Oh, sure. The DM could certainly ignore the random treasure distribution mechanics and artificially reduce the amount of scrolls and whatnot found by the party.

My point was that if you actually follow the mechanics in the books, scrolls and whatnot shouldn't be all that rare. To the point where I don't find JRRNeiklot's example too far out of line. A 5th level MU who has found two or three dozen spells? Yeah, I could pretty easily see that.
 

JRRNeiklot

First Post
Judging by your spell list, it looks like you might be using Unearthed Arcana. If that's right, you need a Gem of Insight, don't you!

Also, can't you try and learn those spells by researching them yourself? (That works in 2nd ed AD&D, I believe, but I would expect also in 1st ed AD&D.)

No, but I suppose it would be possible to research a similar spell. That takes time and money, and if I were DM, I wouldn't allow that, as it defeats the purpose of the chance to learn spell mechanic.
 

JRRNeiklot

First Post
What is the Int for this MU? IIRC with a decent Int say 15 or more you learning chance is about 75%. If you've failed on that many spells you should have succeeded on about an equal number.

I thought spells were supposed to be hard to find in 1e. It looks like this 5th level PC has found about ten spells per spell level.

As usual, Hussar is criticizing rules he doesn't know or bother to check.

My int is 16. That's a 65% chance. As far as the spell list, in 1E, you check at character creation for which spells you can ever learn. We're doing it a bit differently, and only rolling one level at a time whenever a new spell level is learned. No sense in rolling for spell levels that the character or campaign may never reach.
 
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Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
As usual, Hussar is criticizing rules he doesn't know or bother to check.

My int is 16. That's a 65% chance. As far as the spell list, in 1E, you check at character creation for which spells you can ever learn. We're doing it a bit differently, and only rolling one level at a time whenever a new spell level is learned. No sense in rolling for spell levels that the character or campaign may never reach.
Actually, you are following the rules as written precisely: "At first, only the 1st level group of spells are checked. Successive level groups are checked only when the character reaches a level at which the appropriate group of spells is usable by him or her."
 

Hussar

Legend
Wow, talk about different experiences. [MENTION=717]JRRNeiklot[/MENTION], you are the first player in all these years, I've ever heard who did this. We rolled chance to learn when you had the opportunity to learn a given spell. Guess it doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the end, because the odds are the same, but, what a huge time sink.

So, you actually track, at Chargen, what spells you can and cannot learn? You keep a list on your character sheet of the some two hundred 1e spells with a "yes/no" checkmark beside each?

Has anyone else who's reading this thread ever done this?
 

Savage Wombat

Adventurer
Has anyone else who's reading this thread ever done this?

Wow, that's an old memory, but yes, I've done that once. Exactly once. I don't know if I went all the way to 9th level. I remember doing it because that was what the rule said, and I was trying to create the character "properly". Now, the first time I was in an actual D&D campaign, as opposed to random pickup games and teenage nonsense, we did it "as found" and no one even brought up the issue.
 



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