D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[Cadence]

There's really no expectation that these limiters would be used to prevent an ogre from ripping an ancient oak out of the ground and beating people with it.

A 100' tall 10 ton oak tree feels a bit outsized for an 8' ogre to me? I mean, not like the weight, but just the scale isn't how I picture ogres doing things. Grabbing a random 15' tree out of the yard and using it like a mace still feels cary to me.

 

[Vaalingrade]

A 100' tall 10 ton oak tree feels a bit outsized for an 8' ogre to me? I mean, not like the weight, but just the scale isn't how I picture ogres doing things. Grabbing a random 15' tree out of the yard and using it like a mace still feels cary to me.

How else do you reach adventurers when they're waaaay over there?

 

[Campbell]

Relax mates. I'm in no need of solutions nor am I trying to change 5e to suit me better. I am much more concerned with the other game getting a 2024 revision. I simply prefer games with more discrete and binding mechanics because those are more fun for me on both sides of the screen. The only thing I care about in the context of this current conversation is seeing the way people play described accurately and with respect. I don't care what anyone's aesthetic preferences are, and I am certainly not trying to change them.

I am of the opinion that it very much matters how games label their abilities because that tells us what is actually happening in the fiction those mechanics are representative.

When it comes to martial abilities, I personally prefer more at will abilities, but not out of realism concerns. Martial characters tend to be more specialized and less flexible. I prefer simply letting them be awesome within their niche all of the time with more contextual gameplay. Let the less specialized casters be the ones to have to manage limited resources to fill in the gaps.

 

[Gammadoodler]

And your opinion is not your opinion?

This is a non sequitur.

For clarity's sake though, the extent of my disagreement with you is with your use of the word "explicitly".

Your opinion is fine on its own. I disagree with it, but it's fine..as an opinion.

Tying it to anything beyond an opinion in a way that the use of the word "explicit" would imply, is not kosher.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I never said it is the only method. I said it is a valid method to get fights where you can exchange blows, where you can get hit and keep going.
It is a design decision for a specific style of game.

"If you want them to fight, they need to be tougher. D&D is an action RPG. 80% of the rules are in support of combat.
Of course there are RPGs with "weak" characters who can be easily killed like us mere mortals. But these are not D&D."

If the above doesn't pretty much say its what's needed to fight, you're expressing yourself awfully poorly. And its in keeping with you statements multiple times now.

 

[Azzy]

Players will still fight anything that could nerf their characters abilities.

And DMs will still be reluctant to let players try anything that's not codified.

At least the DM has the ball in his court whereas players are always at the mercy of the DM.

 

[mamba]

I'm not fond of using Hulk over say Beowulf

fine with me I guess, do not know all that much about Beowulf, which is why I said ‘yes’ to Conan and ‘no’ to the Hulk. I assume Beowulf is not that far removed from Conan

keeping up with casters is not the issue for me personally. It's keeping up with frost giants, ancient dragons, balors, mariliths, efretti and the like. It's being the sort of character who feels equipped to contend with the things they contend with and not just in a fight.

well, Beowulf gets killed by the dragon he is fighting, so there is that

I do not mind these things being dangerous and only something a group can tackle.

Not sure how you contend with them outside of a fight, what are you looking for and cannot do?

 

[Gammadoodler]

A 100' tall 10 ton oak tree feels a bit outsized for an 8' ogre to me? I mean, not like the weight, but just the scale isn't how I picture ogres doing things. Grabbing a random 15' tree out of the yard and using it like a mace still feels cary to me.

I think it depends on the tree's girth..

Or maybe..

It's not the size of the tree, it's how hard you swing it.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Have you never seen those candy crush clones? Where you fight monsters and dragons and undead by playing an offbrand version of candy crush? There are all-over the playstore/istore.

I just use them as an extreme example of a game's mechanic that is extremely far removed from the game. This destroys any chance of being immersed in such a game, even though it tells an epic fantasy story.

This does not help your case on this being an inaccurate and needless attack.

If you have a dissonance between the game mechanic and the ingame story, especially in RPGs, it brakes the game.

Then stop having the dissonance.

People often forget that it's willing suspension of disbelief. We get over the fact that the fair princess whose hand we are warring over is actually a chubby dude with a rare species of mushroom growing on the cheeto dust in his beard, but not that one of the players got to decide the guards want to fight them? That's a choice.

I just want game elements that serve the intent and the feel of the game.

That are disguised and obfuscated....

Unless they're magic. then they can do what they want.

I don't want Candy Crush meets Dragonfighting.

No one is even talking about it. It's just a terrible slippery-slope argument against narrativist game design.

For me, player character abilities, that, without an ingame explanation change the ingame world are game breaking, because they create a dissonance between the ingame fiction and the rules.

The example has an in game reason: the user is being provocative. Perhaps they're talking about their fat mamas; perhaps they're constantly misrepresenting their arguments to the point where it seems intentional, maybe they're saying they like the 2014 Ranger. They're just asking for it and the guards are happy to provide and will do so if they can't get a hold of themselves via a save.

And it is the DMs job to adjucate and use the rules of the game in a way, that it creates the least amount of dissonance.

I'd rather them make the game fun instead of stopping me from goading some chumps into catching a beating.

If you now also let players create ingame reality outside of their character by removing the adjucation aspect of the DM, that can break the game fast. D&D 5e is not really made for that.

How?

How does the big Bad DM handing over a single round of All Power to let the lowly, pathetic player enjoy a bit of fun break the game? Does one of their Infinite Dragons get a hangnail?

 

[Vaalingrade]

And DMs will still be reluctant to let players try anything that's not codified.

At least the DM has the ball in his court whereas players are always at the mercy of the DM.

Or for some DMs, they just swallow the dang ball so no one else can play, just listen as they explain its trip through their tracts.