D&D General Why the resistance to D&D being a game?

[CreamCloud0]

I really hate that demeaning, diminutive phrase.

i hate the demeaning and diminutive idea that you can't have any meaningful effect without it being explicitly supernatural

actually no, i dont want an ability that makes everyone attack me, i want an ability where my fighter puts on their display of strength or say's 'you really don't want to fight me' and then all the enemies agree and instead go crowd and attack the squishy looking wizard because attacking the guy in a robe with no weapons is a much more sensible idea!

 

[Thomas Shey]

Not really. It shows that designing rules properly is not that easy and there are a lot of situations and interactions you have to take into account.

This is why the often-bemoaned ignoring of the old morale rules took place by a lot of GMs; they didn't think they dealt with the situations at hand well enough.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Fortunately?

I realize you're frustrated about being outlier here, man, but at some point you really have to accept that a lot of people, apparently the majority, fundamentally find what you want here out of D&D antithetical to what they want. Thus, "fortunately".

 

[Umbran]

Walking into any situation at all and forcing people to attack you is mundane?

See above about the difference between what we might call, "gritty realism mundane" and "genre appropriate mundane".

If you want only gritty realism mundane stuff to be available without overt magic, that is a very specific choice on your part. Which is fine, but it is your thing.

Really?

You ask that as if it is surprising.

 

[Oofta]

See above about the difference between what we might call, "gritty realism mundane" and "genre appropriate mundane".

If you want only gritty realism mundane stuff to be available without overt magic, that is a very specific choice on your part. Which is fine, but it is your thing.

I've never said otherwise. But it's hardly "gritty realism" to not be able to walk into any room anywhere under any circumstance and provoke people into physically attacking you.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I realize you're frustrated about being outlier here, man, but at some point you really have to accept that a lot of people, apparently the majority, fundamentally find what you want here out of D&D antithetical to what they want. Thus, "fortunately".

An opinion does not become objective simply because a lot of people believe it. I don't care if I'm an outlier or not.

 

[Micah Sweet]

See above about the difference between what we might call, "gritty realism mundane" and "genre appropriate mundane".

If you want only gritty realism mundane stuff to be available without overt magic, that is a very specific choice on your part. Which is fine, but it is your thing.



You ask that as if it is surprising.

Genre appropriate mundane only works if people only use it when it is genre appropriate and not whenever it would provide a mechanical advantage. That doesn't always happen, so making the rules reflect the genre only doesn't work for me.

 

[MichaelSomething]

What has PF 2E done to minimize gamism?

Let's see. There are no time restrictions on martial maneuvers? Every thing is written so that the rule process matches the fiction? I haven't really played it myself but I never seen anyone around here complain that it's too gamist?

 

[Micah Sweet]

Let's see. There are no time restrictions on martial maneuvers? Every thing is written so that the rule process matches the fiction? I haven't really played it myself but I never seen anyone around here complain that it's too gamist?

Ok. I just finished my first session of PF2E recently, and the impression I got was that it was incredibly rules-heavy on the player side, and the published adventure felt extremely artificial and mostly designed to take you from one fight to the next.

 

[Guest 7042500]

Good for you. Please be clear about your personal opinions.

Actually, Gary was extremely clear that it wasn't.