Why there's crafting in WOW and not in D&D

[GnomeWorks]

Then you are most likely better off finding a game that supports this. Really, no edition of D&D supports this, at all. Heroquest/Hero Wars (whatever its being called nowadays) or Burning Wheel are probably a much better fit.

I'm done with D&D.

And I should really put that in my sig, so that I don't repeat myself like this... not saying it's your fault for not knowing, but this is the fifth or sixth time - at least - that I've said that. It certainly would save time.

Nice assumptions on your part, but you would be mistaken.

Well, given what you said, they seemed like fairly safe assumptions. You've provided counterexamples, so now our discourse can continue.

And, yeah, the party isn't all that happy when I spend half an hour with the rogue player while everyone else sits on their duff. Why should they be? They came to play.

I would question why such a thing takes half an hour.

After a while, I simply did scouting as cut scenes and did away with much of the time factor.

Yay narrativism?

There is, however a difference. When the rogue is scouting, there is danger, there is the unknown, there is discovery. When the dwarf is making a sword, there is... die rolling?

Of course, the response from an anti-crafter is that crafting is just a bunch of die rolls.

And even if it is as uninvolved as that, how long does it take to make these die rolls? If it seriously takes you half an hour to make a few die rolls, then that sounds - to me - like a personal problem.

 

[jadrax]

I am kind of amazed how many people seem to think that 3.5s Craft system was designed to *enable* crafting rather than seeing it as an elabroate subsystem custom built to make sure than no player would ever seriously waste there time with it.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

And clearly we don't need to move past it. I mean, we're still riding horses around, right?

No, we're driving cars these days. Sure, that has some negative implications, but the big advantage over horses is that cars are better for transportation of people and freight then horses and carts. It's faster and can carry more, for a longer time.
So basically, we use horses for transportation of goods and persons.

What are we using RPGs or D&D for? What can we do to improve that?

And even if it is as uninvolved as that, how long does it take to make these die rolls? If it seriously takes you half an hour to make a few die rolls, then that sounds - to me - like a personal problem.

Why spend space and development time with rules for a skill you rarely use or don't spend much time on in game? Where is the advantage or gain, aside maybe from a "completist" goal?

 

[Hussar]

Of course, the response from an anti-crafter is that crafting is just a bunch of die rolls.

And even if it is as uninvolved as that, how long does it take to make these die rolls? If it seriously takes you half an hour to make a few die rolls, then that sounds - to me - like a personal problem.

How can you make crafting more involved than a couple of die rolls? Use the combat model where failure causes damage? There's no danger involved in 99% of crafting, there's no interaction involved in 99% of crafting. How would you make crafting interesting at the table?

As to how it can take 1/2 an hour to scout, well, I play some pretty large dungeons. How long does your rogue scout?

 

[Mallus]

I am kind of amazed how many people seem to think that 3.5s Craft system was designed to *enable* crafting rather than seeing it as an elabroate subsystem custom built to make sure than no player would ever seriously waste there time with it.

That's my opinion too. It's faster, not mention easier, to make a magic item than a good, regular sword or a nice table using the 3.x Crafting rules.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

What I wish D&D would come up with is a supplement for whatever core game world is in use at the time and flesh out the economic system. The old 3E Living Greyhawk Gazetteer did a little bit of this by stating what particular trade goods came from each particular nation. A craft system could do this in more detail. Then just create some recipes and PCs could pick up rare materials when they're in exotic locales.

D&D doesn't need grinding. It just needs a way to get materials you need. And it would make the game so much more interesting if the DM could add in exotic materials to treasure hordes.

WOW crafting is doable without the grinding. When you don't have competing players buying up all the available materials, it's doable. The DM can control the availability of materials.