Why We Should Work With WotC

[MonsterEnvy]

if you think there will no be any, go back to the remote island you spent the last 10 years on

I am pretty sure there will be purchases you can make for it, but that is not a problem on it's own.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Yes, currently Hasbro is profitable only because of WotC, and WotC is profitable because of 3PP, so you could argue that 3PP is what is keeping Hasbro alive...

I don't think 3pp is what is making WotC profitable.

 

[Maxperson]

Not that I'm necessarily fixing the Spelljammer setting problem, since I'm publishing under One D&D at the DM's Guild and among their publishing guidelines is not creating full settings. But I am creating one Wildspace system, which is allowed content. Because I also publish 3PP for Starfinder, and my most recent release is The Planet Builder, with the help of an astrophysicist in it's design, is a set of tables and a planet point system allowing users to design entire, scientifically viable, star systems and their stat block, with rules allowing you to grow your system
as a setting over time. Though designed for Starfinder, it's generic enough to be usable in any space based game.

So I borrowed the stat block framework from that release, and linked to Spelljammer coming release. I created a trinary star system, where one of the stars went nova and became both a massive nebula and stellar nursury. The nova also pushed Hawk the smaller star system into the Peregrine star system so that the outer orbits overlap and collisions have already happened and may happen again for potential localized apocalyses. Together the 2 star systems consist of 11 inhabited planets, moons or asteroid clusters, and 7 separate race/cultures. The greater nebula provides an expansive "wilderness area" the size of 5 Wildspace systems combined. It's a complete mini-setting, within the larger Spelljammer setting. (Yes, this is 3PP, not first party, but we 3PP can improve the setting - just sayin').

I think that's my purpose as 3PP, first party can only go so far with their creativity to maintain as sense of unity, so it's the 3PP that finishes the rest off, where first party does not go...

That sounds cool.

I'm curious, though, how you can be publishing under something that doesn't even exist yet? 5.5 hasn't been released, nor have any legal changes. 1.0a still controls releases.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Sure, dude, and they were totally making stuff up about OGL 1.1, too! It's all made up! None of this is true! Don't believe your eyes and ears! ONLY BELIEVE FRIEND WIZARD!

FRIEND WIZARD KNOWS BEST
FRIEND WIZARD KNOWS ALL
FRIEND WIZARD IS HERE TO HELP*

* ANY ACTION DEEMED HATEFUL, HARMFUL, DISRESPECTFUL OR MOCKING TO FRIEND WIZARD WILL RESULT IN TERMINATION OF LICENSE**
**RIGHTS GRANTED BY LICENSE ARE EXTREMELY LIMITED TO CONTINUING PAID SUBSCRIPTION TO FRIEND WIZARD, SUBSISTANCE ON THAY-IMPORTED GRUEL, AND LIFE. IF REVOKED, UNDEAD TABLE TERMS COME INTO EFFECT AUTOMATICALLY.

So basically you have nothing, but insults.

 

[raniE]

That was the plan... I just don't buy that the plan worked as it was supposed to given that the vast majority of D&D players don't buy anything for the game beyond a PHB... if thats the case then it seems what small amount of players are retained or brought in by 3pp support is dwarfed by the WotC official tools and marketing machine.

Yes, that's part of the plan. Everything else is essentially a marketing tool for the PHB, which has always been the best seller. And it remains true for other systems as well. Lamentations of the Flame Princess is known for bizarre adventures and such. What's the company's biggest seller? Rules & Magic, the core rule book. Still, after 15 years, the core book is the biggest seller. The thing is that some of those players wouldn't have been there if not for someone else buying a third part product at some point. This is what they called the Skaff effect. "All marketing and sales activity in a hobby gaming genre eventually contributes to the overall success of the market share leader in that genre."

As for it working or not, what we know for sure is that last time Hasbro tried to go without the OGL and third party support, they abandoned the project after 4 years and went straight back to the OGL.

But people were adapting D&D to different genres and settings before the OGL ever existed and even then D&D was the 800lb gorilla... so what was actually gained?

About 800 lbs or so. D&D is far more dominant now than it was in the 90s. If an 800 lb gorilla then, it is a 1600 lb gorilla now.

But this wasn't the reality before the OGL was created... people did feel adapt D&D and it was the 800lb gorilla of ttrpg's

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, sorry.

D&D... when was there ever, before the OGL, a mass exodus to other fantasy games?

Depending on how you define fantasy, in the early 90s, with the urban fantasy games of White Wolf. But that's kind of irrelevant since that wasn't what I wrote. What I wrote was that someone who was already playing other games than D&D would likely look at other games than D&D if they got the urge to go play some fantasy, and that someone who was just playing D&D/D20 games would very likely be going straight to standard D&D if they just wanted to paly some vanilla fantasy.

Sooo... it made something already being done easier... I can accept that.



It was dominating before that...

Not at all to the same extent. And that's another point of the strategy. Network externalities was what kept D&D big, so Dancey, Skaff and others figured that if they caught even more people in the same system, the dominance would increase. Hence groing from 800 pound gorilla to 1,600 pound gorilla. Or from 400 to 800 pound gorilla if you think the 800 lb thing is more accurate now.

 

[gamerprinter]

That sounds cool.

I'm curious, though, how you can be publishing under something that doesn't even exist yet? One D&D hasn't been released, nor have any legal changes. 1.0a still controls releases.

Not certain, except, since I already have a relationship with DrivethruRPG, and the DM's Guild is operating now, and my near-released product is being licensed as One D&D at DrivethruRPG. I could release it tomorrow if it were done under that license, so I don't know that it isn't currently available - it seems to be according to the DM's Guild....?

@Maxperson Edit: I guess it's not One D&D, but the Community Content Agreement with the Dungeon Master's Guild (allows me to publish D&D product identity and IP for a smaller cut, than what I get at DrivethruRPG; 50% vs. 65%.) This was going to be my one or first time venture supporting 5e, so I'll play it by ear on whether I continue to pursue products under this agreement. (Potential adventures set in my Wildspace system.) If it gets good sales despite the smaller cut it might be worth it... we'll see.

 

[raniE]

True. I always forget MtG, since I haven't played that in 5 years, I don't even think about it anymore...

The thing is that WotC has also been antagonizing the Magic player base. So, you know, there's that.

 

[gamerprinter]

I don't think 3pp is what is making WotC profitable.

I don't either, I just said, one could argue that...

 

[Haplo781]

Realistically, One DnD could be a total flop that takes the entirety of WotC down with it. But Hasbro will live on. The worst case scenario is that D&D and all associated IP gets placed in Hasbro's vault of dead IP --- which is actually quite vast. Hasbro is well known to sit on a lot of dead IP that it does not try to market. One more won't make much difference to them. Sure, they'd rather have it profitable, but they would be content to simply vault it up rather than sell it to someone who would use it.

WotC is responsible for 20% of Hasbro's revenue and 70% of its profits.

That means the rest of the company is bleeding money.

So no. Hasbro cannot, in fact, survive without WotC.

 

[Minigiant]

and I am sure you are making that number up, the actual number will be much higher

I'm not saying that's the number.

What I'm saying is just because you made money doesn't mean you made enough money.
Adventures, because only DM use them, will only sell to 1 person in a group. And that is if the group runs that adventure. So you might sell 0.25 books per group. Or 1 book per 20 fans.
Players option book can be used by a Player and a DM. If the players share, that 2 books per group. 8 books per 20 fans if you have 5 person groups.

Concidering Corporate says you must make more money this year than the last year and all non core books are about the same in expenses. Which one is WOTC going to make more profit from.

This is why WOTC had no problem with 3PP pumping out adventures and niche splats. It let them focus on more profitable, less risky books.