Why would anyone ever want the quickdraw feat?

[Kaelynna]

I don't mean to be argumentative...

A 5' step is not a regular move, it's an "adjustment" that still lets you take a full-round action. I don't know of anyone who will let you draw a weapon and take a full attack without quickdraw; that's what quickdraw is for. I seem to recall the quickdraw topic coming up in Sage Advice in an issue of Dragon (not sure which one, off hand), and that's pretty much what the Sage said too iirc.

Not allowing a full attack action doesn't see logical. Here's why I say so....

If the character has over +1 BAB, and is allowed draw a weapon (or two weapons if she has two weapon fighting) without spending a normal move, then that means the character can draw her weapon(s), take her normal move, and attack once.

Now since the above is true, why can't she draw her weapon(s), take a 5' step and get all her attacks?

Both actions essentially would take the same amount of time for the said character (6 seconds, 1 round).

Doesn't seem logical not to allow this...

If anyone can point me to an official answer on this, feel free. I appreciate the discussion.

- Kae.

 

[Mort]

The SRD says that a character with a +1 BAB can draw a weapon while moving and still get one attack (hence combine with a regular move). In other words the character is coordinated enough to move and draw at the same time (one of the few times where two move equivilant actions can be combined).
If they don't move, they still take the same action (move equivilant action) to draw the weapon, and still get only one attack.
Quickdraw makes drawing a free action and thus they can draw and get their full attack at the same time.

 

[KnowTheToe]

It could be a useless feat in a rules light game. Some DMs don't/might not care about weapon drawing speed.

In our campaign there has been several occasions where quickdraw would have come in very handy.



M@

 

[Zaruthustran]

Re: I don't mean to be argumentative...

If anyone can point me to an official answer on this, feel free. I appreciate the discussion.

You've already quoted the relevant official rules. Drawing a weapon is a move-equivelent action. Characters with +1 BAB can draw during a move. You can't full attack if you've moved.

Therefore, you can't draw and full attack.

...unless you have Quick Draw.

5' step is not a move. It's a 5' step. You don't get a free draw when you 5' step.

...unless you have Quick Draw.

The Rules section of this board has many (recent) threads on Quickdraw. If anyone wants specific examples of the utility of QD, go there.

-z

PS: the above may not be logical to you, but recognize that it's a game thing. Logic sometimes takes a back seat to balance and other mechanic issues.

 

[Kaelynna]

I understa

The SRD says that a character with a +1 BAB can draw a weapon while moving and still get one attack (hence combine with a regular move). In other words the character is coordinated enough to move and draw at the same time (one of the few times where two move equivilant actions can be combined).
If they don't move, they still take the same action (move equivilant action) to draw the weapon, and still get only one attack.
Quickdraw makes drawing a free action and thus they can draw and get their full attack at the same time.

You're right. It specifically says 'combine one of these actions with a regular move'. This implies that regular move has to be taken to get this benefit, and if a regular move is taken then a full attack action is cannot be performed.

Thanks for the clarification!
- Kae.

 

[tmaaas]

Sunder

Quickdraw is very useful if your DM is in the habit of using sunder . . .

 

[Zaruthustran]

Re: This isn't how I understand it...

This means that the 11th level fighter in your example could draw his weapon without using a move-equivalent action and therefore could get all his attacks as long as he didn't move greater than 5'.

- Kae.

Ah, I think I see the source of confusion. Moving 5' is not the same as taking a 5' step. That is, the distance moved is the same but the game effect is very different.

If you move 5', you are taking the Move action. If you have +1 BAB you get a free draw. But you're also potentially Moving within a threatened area, which may provoke an AoO. Plus, you've Moved, so no full attack for you.

If you take a 5' step, then that's a whole other game mechanic. No AoO, no Move action, no free draw. But you get your full attack.

In both cases you've moved, er, no, you've travelled a total of five feet. But the game mechanic is very different.

-z, who agrees that the distinction is pretty flaky--but them's the rules.

 

[Kaelynna]

Re: Re: I don't mean to be argumentative...

You've already quoted the relevant official rules. Drawing a weapon is a move-equivelent action. Characters with +1 BAB can draw during a move. You can't full attack if you've moved.

Therefore, you can't draw and full attack.

...unless you have Quick Draw.

5' step is not a move. It's a 5' step. You don't get a free draw when you 5' step.

...unless you have Quick Draw.

The Rules section of this board has many (recent) threads on Quickdraw. If anyone wants specific examples of the utility of QD, go there.

-z

PS: the above may not be logical to you, but recognize that it's a game thing. Logic sometimes takes a back seat to balance and other mechanic issues.

I appreciate the clarification.

How about this though....what if the said character has Dire charge, draws his weapon, charges, and attacks. Dire charge is an epic level feat that allows a full attack action with a charge. Would quickdraw be needed in this case? I would still say yes, because the said character would be performing a charge and not a regular move. Correct?

Thanks everyone! I appreciate your help!

- Kae.

 

[Kaelynna]

Re: Re: This isn't how I understand it...

Ah, I think I see the source of confusion. Moving 5' is not the same as taking a 5' step. That is, the distance moved is the same but the game effect is very different.

If you move 5', you are taking the Move action. If you have +1 BAB you get a free draw. But you're also potentially Moving within a threatened area, which may provoke an AoO. Plus, you've Moved, so no full attack for you.

If you take a 5' step, then that's a whole other game mechanic. No AoO, no Move action, no free draw. But you get your full attack.

In both cases you've moved, er, no, you've travelled a total of five feet. But the game mechanic is very different.

-z, who agrees that the distinction is pretty flaky--but them's the rules.

Yep, you hit it dead on. That's why I was confused. I understand the error of my ways now hehehe.

Thanks a lot!
- Kae.

 

[AuraSeer]

Re: Re: Re: I don't mean to be argumentative...

How about this though....what if the said character has Dire charge, draws his weapon, charges, and attacks. Dire charge is an epic level feat that allows a full attack action with a charge. Would quickdraw be needed in this case? I would still say yes, because the said character would be performing a charge and not a regular move. Correct?

Correct. A charge is not a regular move, it's a special action (during which you travel up to twice your speed). Without Quickdraw, you cannot draw your weapon and charge on the same round.

If you do not have QD, and you draw your weapon, you cannot then charge. The Dire Charge feat doesn't change that.