Why would Picasso or Einstein have so many hit points?

[Vrecknidj]

[RANT]
Okay, here's my gripe. In the game, as it stands, combat is a big deal. Maybe, we should call it Combat, or maybe even, COMBAT. After all, even your average Joe who eats, drinks and sleeps barrel making ends up with loads of hit points by the time he's 50. I get that this is just a side effect of the mechanic of the system, but I've thought about doing away with it.

(As I dodge the eggs and tomatoes, I ask you to hear me out.)

I'm not sure exactly what I'm proposing yet, but if I propose anything at all, it may end up a house rule for my campaign, hence the forum. After someone gains some specified amount of experience, she gets better at what she does. Perhaps she's a fighter, perhaps she learns spells, but perhaps she paints or sculpts or does algebra problems.

But, no matter who you are, once you gain so much experience, new things happen to you. You may be a little better at combat (and, as a result, you may qualify for certain feats that you've never even thought about before--once you have a BAB of +1, you can take Weapon Finesse). You may become more adept at dodging out of the way of falling blocks, or you may be a little harder to convince. Your skills improve, and, finally, you have more hit points--in other words, just because you're better at algebra, or painting or sculpting (or anything), you're now harder to kill.

Huh?

Has anyone else instituted a house rule that allows someone to trade their level-granted new hit points for something else? How about their BAB improvement? Sure, sure, when the game is being played and the dice are being rolled, and you get <another!> crappy initiative roll, it's good to know that your 35 hp wizard will probably live until his first turn. But, there's no reason that NPCs have to be this way. I can see Einstein having 20 ranks in Knowledge (physics), but if that made him a 17th level expert, then he'd have tons of hit points, and that doesn't make much sense to me.

It seems okay to say something like "one hit die can be traded for another 4 skill points" or "an improvement to a save can be traded for another 4 skill points" or something like that.

I know all about "what hit points represent in the game" and all that, I've been playing since 1980, and I play d20 Modern and the Star Wars RPG. So, I'm familiar with different systems as well--but they all have this in common.
[/RANT]

Has anyone out there instituted a mechanic that gets at what I'm ranting about?

Dave

 

[BryonD]

Use massive damage threshold = CON for non-combat focused NPCs.

I do not mind Einstein having 50 HP in a fantasy or Hollywood style setting for purposes of surviving an escape from a major combat and maybe getting "wounded" along the way. But if ole' Al gets seriously tagged his 10 CON means a good chance he's going down.

Oh, and there are plenty of systems that do avoid this matter. GURPS comes to mind.

 

[Aaron2]

I can see Einstein having 20 ranks in Knowledge (physics), ...

That seems a bit much to me.


Aaron

 

[BryonD]

That seems a bit much to me.
Aaron

circa 1940

or

circa 2004

 

[solomoncane]

Use massive damage threshold = CON for non-combat focused NPCs.

I do not mind Einstein having 50 HP in a fantasy or Hollywood style setting for purposes of surviving an escape from a major combat and maybe getting "wounded" along the way. But if ole' Al gets seriously tagged his 10 CON means a good chance he's going down.

.

I agree with the MDT concept here, it quickly takes the fight out of average folks. As to HP, A more experienced person might be a little more aware of life and cautious about injury. The young and inexperienced (low HP) will run into trouble.

 

[Henry]

(As I dodge the eggs and tomatoes, I ask you to hear me out.)

As you did that, the effort you exoended dodging those cost you some hit points. I'm a pretty good shot, and unless you put in some extra "oomph" dodging and weaving, i'm gonna hit you with that rotten tomato.

Should Einstein have 50 hit points? doubtfully, but then he's probably not 20th level, either. He's probably more like 3rd, with max ranks, an 18 intelligence, and skill focus (physics), for a total of +13, which is more than most people of his day had. He also took the "stroke of genius" feat, which gives him one idea that he can gain publicity from due to its innovative nature.

That said, d20 Modern or D&D wouldn't do it well - better to use something like Grim Tales (possibly) or Mutants and masterminds, and neglect his Saving throws entirely.

 

[BryonD]

He's probably more like 3rd, with max ranks, an 18 intelligence, and skill focus (physics), for a total of +13, which is more than most people of his day had. He also took the "stroke of genius" feat, which gives him one idea that he can gain publicity from due to its innovative nature.

At the risk of a total hijack......

I don't agree that "in his day" is a good consideration.
I woundn't limit a modern day physics expert character to 5 ranks because the expert in my Star Trek game only has 8 ranks and knows a whole lot more than this guy.

I'd easily give Einstein a +20 or more in physics.

I'll certainly agree that there could be other experts from his day that were even better than him, but did not get the same level of acclaim. (Heck, I could name some...)

But he was among the best in the world and his check should reflect that.

Now, if I ran a game in which Al got time warped to modern day, then I'd slap him with a -15 circumstance penalty to all physics checks. Or send a modern day grad student back in time and give him a +15 circumstance bonus (and an off-setting -10 for loss of modern technology to work with )

 

[Vrecknidj]

House Rule solution (feel free to ignore, of course, I'm not talking about your campaign).

If all of an individual's class levels are taken from NPC classes, then that individual has a Massive Damage Threshhold equal to his Con score. (Follow rules from d20 Modern at this point.) If an individual takes one level from any PC class or Prestige class, then this MDT no longer applies.

New feat
Tough as a Hero
Benefit: You no longer follow the MDT rules, you are like a PC.
Special: These rules do not apply to non-standard races, such as ogres or lizardfolk; they only apply to the base races.

(Tangential question: are there epic commoners?)

Dave

 

[RangerWickett]

He's probably more like 3rd, with max ranks, an 18 intelligence, and skill focus (physics), for a total of +13, which is more than most people of his day had. He also took the "stroke of genius" feat, which gives him one idea that he can gain publicity from due to its innovative nature.

So my friend Ted, who has a doctorate in physics, and knows relativity and all that, and quantum mechanics, and string theory, and whatever else they have come up with yet that the Discovery Channel hasn't told me about, would logically know more than Einstein. Meaning he'd have to be at least 4th level, or higher. Since his massive damage threshold is at least 10, and even if I crit with a dagger I can only do 8 damage, I ought to stab him over and over, and he'll be okay.

Hmm. :\

With Four-Color to Fantasy, you could get 8 'Hero Points' instead of a level, and instead of buying super powers, you might just buy skill knowledge. Though the default Hero class includes slow saves and base attack progression, you could strip them out and up it to 10 HrPs per level. If, say, you're a 3rd level Smart Hero, that's enough to get, like, +15 to a skill. It won't help you in combat, but officially you'd count as a 4th level character.

 

[ciaran00]

Why not simply allow the NPC Expert class (DMG) bypass skill rank maximums for level? If Einstein had an Int of 30, he'd have 16 skill points per level, and 64 at 1st level... plenty to justify that doctorate.

ciaran