Critical Role Wildemount: Most Pre-orders Since D&D Core Rulebooks

It seems that the most popular D&D setting in the 5E era is... Wildemount! Talking about the upcoming Explorer's Guide to Wildemount, WotC's Greg Tito said on a Twitch stream recently that "we're pretty sure that this book has seen the most pre-orders and pre-release excitement since any of the core rulebooks for Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition were released".

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Here's the quote in full:

"...It was number 1, ranked number 1, for all books on Amazon. How many of you out there remember when Amazon was just selling books? Raise your hands. Yeah, that's me. So it's really cool, even though obviously I do a lot more other fun stuff right now, there is a ton out there that are excited for this book, and it isn't even out yet.

"We have little bit of an internal metrics, but we're pretty sure that this book has seen the most pre-orders and pre-release excitement since any of the core rulebooks for Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition were released, and if you've been following along at home, Dungeons & Dragons has been selling like hotcakes since 5th Edition released in 2014."

It sounds like the Critical Role setting is proving more popular (at least right now) than traditional D&D settings like Ravenloft or Eberron, newer ones like Ravnica, or adventures set in the Forgotten Realms.

Explorer's Guide to Wildemount will hit game stores on March 17th.
 

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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey


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Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
That says a lot about your ethics as marketer.

Does it?

Let's say you're buying toothpaste, and an ad says "7 out of 10 people choose this toothpaste!" Some people hear that and think the toothpaste must be good, because other people buy it. But that's not true; just because something is popular, doesn't make it good. It could be cheap. It could just be available in a lot of stores. Maybe it's got a colorful box.

So saying "7 out of 10 people choose this toothpaste" is a misleading ad because it literally doesn't mean anything, but people trust it anyway. But it's not a lie. It's completely true; you're just falling for it.

So when you say something is "inspired" by something, and "inspired" is something purposefully said because it's nearly impossible to prove... it's not a lie. It's a marketing gimmick, and you fell for it.

I don't like gimmicks myself and work hard to prove to my clients that our product is the best because it's the best (and I literally point out these gimmicks used by competitors). But if you want to be an informed customer, you should be informed enough to not fall for gimmicks.
 

gyor

Legend
You're the one who whenever wotc hires a woman, questions her qualifications and implies she only got hired because she was a woman over an assumed higher qualified man. So maybe you shouldn't call others out on their ethics.

That isn't true at all, I critized people who unfairly called other people sexists for critizing the nepotism that was involved in hiring Kate Welsh when she didn't meet WotCs own standards for qualification. And I have never critized any other female hirings at WotC at all, not even indirectly, I like Emi for example, I adore the writing of Erin M. Evans (btw), who I wish WotC would hire back, Elaine Cunningham and more.

I wasn't even going to weigh in on the Kate Welsh hire originally until I saw critics of the hire being slandered.

I have no ill will towards Kate Welsh, my issue was never really with her at all.

There are many great female game designers and fantasy writers in general.

I really resent the accusation against me honestly and I would like an apology as it wasn't true.
 

gyor

Legend
Does it?

Let's say you're buying toothpaste, and an ad says "7 out of 10 people choose this toothpaste!" Some people hear that and think the toothpaste must be good, because other people buy it. But that's not true; just because something is popular, doesn't make it good. It could be cheap. It could just be available in a lot of stores. Maybe it's got a colorful box.

So saying "7 out of 10 people choose this toothpaste" is a misleading ad because it literally doesn't mean anything, but people trust it anyway. But it's not a lie. It's completely true; you're just falling for it.

So when you say something is "inspired" by something, and "inspired" is something purposefully said because it's nearly impossible to prove... it's not a lie. It's a marketing gimmick, and you fell for it.

I don't like gimmicks myself and work hard to prove to my clients that our product is the best because it's the best (and I literally point out these gimmicks used by competitors). But if you want to be an informed customer, you should be informed enough to not fall for gimmicks.

I would call that a scam and unethical sales practice, but your right it's technically true. But saying something is inspired by 5e when its very much not and you know full well what the means to those who read that IS lying, it's not misdirection, it's lying.

If that is what your doing to people via marketing you might want to rethink what you do for a living, deliberately misleading people into buying products you know are crap isn't good. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but wow.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
That isn't true at all, I critized people who unfairly called other people sexists for critizing the nepotism that was involved in hiring Kate Welsh when she didn't meet WotCs own standards for qualification. And I have never critized any other female hirings at WotC at all, not even indirectly, I like Emi for example, I adore the writing of Erin M. Evans (btw), who I wish WotC would hire back, Elaine Cunningham and more.

I wasn't even going to weigh in on the Kate Welsh hire originally until I saw critics of the hire being slandered.

I have no ill will towards Kate Welsh, my issue was never really with her at all.

There are many great female game designers and fantasy writers in general.

I really resent the accusation against me honestly and I would like an apology as it wasn't true.
You weren't even gonna comment until you saw all the slander of her critics?

You were literally the first person to comment on that thread 🤷🏼‍♂️
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
That isn't true at all, I critized people who unfairly called other people sexists for critizing the nepotism that was involved in hiring Kate Welsh when she didn't meet WotCs own standards for qualification. And I have never critized any other female hirings at WotC at all, not even indirectly, I like Emi for example, I adore the writing of Erin M. Evans (btw), who I wish WotC would hire back, Elaine Cunningham and more.

I wasn't even going to weigh in on the Kate Welsh hire originally until I saw critics of the hire being slandered.

I have no ill will towards Kate Welsh, my issue was never really with her at all.

There are many great female game designers and fantasy writers in general.

I really resent the accusation against me honestly and I would like an apology as it wasn't true.

You called someone in this thread unethical in their own profession, and then called other people liars when they both were not lying and also you hadn't even checked out the product to see if your accusation was accurate or not. And you're going to demand an apology from someone else because you think they're being unfair characterizing prior comments from you?

If you're going to dish it out, learn to take it. Again, this is a bad look for you today. You're not usually this thoughtless in your commentary.
 

gyor

Legend
You weren't even gonna comment until you saw all the slander of her critics?

You were literally the first person to comment on that thread 🤷🏼‍♂️

The slander of the critics started long before it got here on twitter. Anyways even if you think I was on the wrong side of hiring Kate Welsh issue or not, saying I complain whenever WotC hires women is a lie and smear against my reputation here. I support the talents of many female game designers and fantasy/sci fi writers. Tomorrow if I'm not working (weather dependant), I will put together a list of my favourite female game designers and Fantasy-Sci Fi writers. I still want an apology.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
The slander of the critics started long before it got here on twitter. Anyways even if you think I was on the wrong side of hiring Kate Welsh issue or not, saying I complain whenever WotC hires women is a lie and smear against my reputation here. I support the talents of many female game designers and fantasy/sci fi writers. Tomorrow if I'm not working (weather dependant), I will put together a list of my favourite female game designers and Fantasy-Sci Fi writers. I still want an apology.
Your "I like some black people so I can't be racist" logic doesn't hold water.

You were literally the first person to respond in that thread, so you weren't defending any critics. And you weren't "I wasn't even gonna reply" obviously.

This is one of the things you said, which again isn't defending any critics (I'm on my phone so I can't quite tag):

Secondly there are tons of white men in abject poverty, so HOW DARE YOU CALL THEM PRIVELEDGED BASED ON THE COLOUR OF THEIR SKIN AND GENDER, you feel priveledged so all white men MUST be priveledged, secondly there are men who have been told right to their face that they would never be able to climb any higher in their industry because they we're white and male and there for not what companies are looking for.

And you might enjoy yourself hating hate man schtick, but it's wearing thin on the rest of us.

Is the war vet with no legs priveledged? Is the homeless man on the streets priveldged, is the poor man living in a trailer his whole life who gets called white trash by guys like you priveledged, is the guy living in his car because his wife took everything privileged? It's easy to call other white guys priveledged, because you have absolutely no idea what millions of other white men are going through, because you never thought to ask, you sere told white men are priveledged, and YOU NEVER QUESTIONED IT, you thought to ask why are white male suicides increasing, why are men in general falling behind in education and millions struggling. You have neither sympathy or understanding for say Rust Belt workers who lost jobs thanks to automation and trade treaty designed for the rich, who struggle to keep their families fed and clothed, sacrificing daily, while watching their marriages suffer under the strain. There are white men who get sexually assaulted who call help lines only to be accused of being a rapist by the person on the other end. Are all the men who lost their jobs based on unproven #Metoo allegations that circumvent due process orividled. Are the fathers who are dying on the inside because they never get to see their children, which being squeezed for every red cent they make by ex wives priveledged?

Your ignorance is profound and utter.

And getting a job just because you white and male is just as wrong, I equally condemn such deplorable behavior. I believe and racial and gender equality, something my follow lefties used to believe in too before the curse of intersectional feminism.
 
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gyor

Legend
You called someone in this thread unethical in their own profession, and then called other people liars when they both were not lying and also you hadn't even checked out the product to see if your accusation was accurate or not. And you're going to demand an apology from someone else because you think they're being unfair characterizing prior comments from you?

If you're going to dish it out, learn to take it. Again, this is a bad look for you today. You're not usually this thoughtless in your commentary.

I'm familiar with how the mechanics worked in SCLs thanks, so I stand by that.

I missed the last post of marketer who says he discourages such practices so I will apologize to our marketer. I'm sorry.

But I stand by what I said about WotC.
 

gyor

Legend
Your "I like some black people so I can't be racist" logic doesn't hold water.

You were literally the first person to respond in that thread, so you weren't defending any critics. And you weren't "I wasn't even gonna reply" obviously.

This is one of the things you said, which again isn't defending any critics (I'm on my phone so I can't quite tag):

Secondly there are tons of white men in abject poverty, so HOW DARE YOU CALL THEM PRIVELEDGED BASED ON THE COLOUR OF THEIR SKIN AND GENDER, you feel priveledged so all white men MUST be priveledged, secondly there are men who have been told right to their face that they would never be able to climb any higher in their industry because they we're white and male and there for not what companies are looking for.

And you might enjoy yourself hating hate man schtick, but it's wearing thin on the rest of us.

Is the war vet with no legs priveledged? Is the homeless man on the streets priveldged, is the poor man living in a trailer his whole life who gets called white trash by guys like you priveledged, is the guy living in his car because his wife took everything privileged? It's easy to call other white guys priveledged, because you have absolutely no idea what millions of other white men are going through, because you never thought to ask, you sere told white men are priveledged, and YOU NEVER QUESTIONED IT, you thought to ask why are white male suicides increasing, why are men in general falling behind in education and millions struggling. You have neither sympathy or understanding for say Rust Belt workers who lost jobs thanks to automation and trade treaty designed for the rich, who struggle to keep their families fed and clothed, sacrificing daily, while watching their marriages suffer under the strain. There are white men who get sexually assaulted who call help lines only to be accused of being a rapist by the person on the other end. Are all the men who lost their jobs based on unproven #Metoo allegations that circumvent due process orividled. Are the fathers who are dying on the inside because they never get to see their children, which being squeezed for every red cent they make by ex wives priveledged?

Your ignorance is profound and utter.

And getting a job just because you white and male is just as wrong, I equally condemn such deplorable behavior. I believe and racial and gender equality, something my follow lefties used to believe in too before the curse of intersectional feminism.

WTF did that have anything to do with in this thread, not that I don't stand by that comment, I do, but it has nothing to do this thread or anything in it. And Morrus doesn't like it would I get political so I have nothing more to say about it out of respect to Morrus.

Seriously I pretty mildly critcize WotC and I get the mob with torches and pitch fork treatment WTF.
 

Chaosmancer

Legend
I'm familiar with how the mechanics worked in SCLs thanks, so I stand by that.

I missed the last post of marketer who says he discourages such practices so I will apologize to our marketer. I'm sorry.

But I stand by what I said about WotC.

Why? I mean, I guarantee you I could look up "art inspired by X" and find a lot of stuff where the inspiration is very loose.

I've been inspired by things and if I didn't explain the connection, I bet people would never even notice it. Inspiration is just where the seed of an idea germinates.

Now, not to say I don't have my own issues with the phrases. I hate movies "based on true events" that are so far removed from the actual events that it is clear they just wanted to increase the creep factor of their horror by making it seem like it really happened. I don't find that malicious though. Just a lazy gimmick for puffing yourself up.
 

gyor

Legend
Why? I mean, I guarantee you I could look up "art inspired by X" and find a lot of stuff where the inspiration is very loose.

I've been inspired by things and if I didn't explain the connection, I bet people would never even notice it. Inspiration is just where the seed of an idea germinates.

Now, not to say I don't have my own issues with the phrases. I hate movies "based on true events" that are so far removed from the actual events that it is clear they just wanted to increase the creep factor of their horror by making it seem like it really happened. I don't find that malicious though. Just a lazy gimmick for puffing yourself up.

WotC knew full well what consumers would take by Inspired by 5e.
 


Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
I would call that a scam and unethical sales practice, but your right it's technically true. But saying something is inspired by 5e when its very much not and you know full well what the means to those who read that IS lying, it's not misdirection, it's lying.

If that is what your doing to people via marketing you might want to rethink what you do for a living, deliberately misleading people into buying products you know are crap isn't good. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but wow.

It's not lying. "Inspired" is a very loose term; it's definition is "to fill with the urge or ability to do or feel something, especially to do something creative." This is an incredibly difficult thing to prove someone hasn't experienced.

Now if you actually read my earlier comment I literally said I don't try to mislead people; it's far more effective in marketing to build trust, and misdirection under-minds that.

But seriously, get real here. Wizard's did not lie to you; if you took this to court, it'd get thrown out at the lowest level. People are going to twist words to make you think one thing when they really meant another. You can complain it's unethical (and it is), but if you can't sift through BS like that on your own you're going to keep getting tricked by companies into buying their crap.
 

gyor

Legend
It's not lying. "Inspired" is a very loose term; it's definition is "to fill with the urge or ability to do or feel something, especially to do something creative." This is an incredibly difficult thing to prove someone hasn't experienced.

Now if you actually read my earlier comment I literally said I don't try to mislead people; it's far more effective in marketing to build trust, and misdirection under-minds that.

But seriously, get real here. Wizard's did not lie to you; if you took this to court, it'd get thrown out at the lowest level. People are going to twist words to make you think one thing when they really meant another. You can complain it's unethical (and it is), but if you can't sift through BS like that on your own you're going to keep getting tricked by companies into buying their crap.

I already apologize for missing that line about your marketing ethics.

And you all know people reading inspired by 5e which interpret that as a reasonable close adaptions of the 5e rules set, and you know WotC knew that as well when they said it. Call it whatever you want it was wrong.

Anyways we are just going in circles now so unless someone has a new arguement to make I'm moving on.
 

Oofta

Legend
Do we even know who said SCL was inspired by D&D 5E? Or that anyone said those words specifically? IIRC at that point they were still being careful not to give a version number, all the marketing was "Just D&D", no version. But at this point it's just an accusation thrown out by someone making an unsubstantiated judgement based on hearsay.

As far as why I defend WOTC, why does it matter? An unfounded, unjustified insult was made about people that helped create a game I enjoy. I respect their work and their professionalism.

It's just such a stretch to go from somebody's arguably reasonable marketing phrase about a game that was released 5 years ago. It was unfortunately poorly designed and critically panned. But no video game will ever slavishly implement 5E mechanics, they simply don't translate to the pace and style. That doesn't mean it can't be "inspired by".
 

Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
I already apologize for missing that line about your marketing ethics.

And you all know people reading inspired by 5e which interpret that as a reasonable close adaptions of the 5e rules set, and you know WotC knew that as well when they said it. Call it whatever you want it was wrong.

Anyways we are just going in circles now so unless someone has a new arguement to make I'm moving on.

Thank you, I hadn't read the apology before I finished.

And I agree, we can all infer the interpretation that they were trying to send. And it is unethical to do so; but it is not by definition lying (though it is dishonest).

I too am happy to move on.
 


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