Will Essentials do well?

[ggroy]

I have a feeling this is changing. If WOTCs own marketing charts are to be believed PF is gaining sales and 4e is declining (while still being way out in the lead at a 2:1 sales ratio aprox).

The question is what happens to Pathfinder when it reaches its two-year mark. (Note that the Pathfinder core book + bestiary were released a year ago at Gencon 2009). At the present time, the 4E D&D PHB1/DMG1/MM1 books have already reached their two-year mark this past June (two months ago).

Will Pathfinder still have the same momentum, at this time next year?

 

[Jasperak]

I don't think you'll see quite the same reaction to pre-Essentials books as you did for 3e-3.5, for two reasons. One, the mechanical differences between the two, so far, look far less than the mechanical differences between 3e and 3.5.

What mechanical differences between 3.0 and 3.5? I gather from the previews that 4ee martial characters don't get daily powers anymore. Changing the fundamental base of the class and how it works is far different than changing durations of buff spells or splashing a few class abilities on the ranger.

Or did I miss some more fundamental changes between 3.0 and 3.5? I don't think I could watch a game played with 3.0 and 3.5 rules and tell the difference, but I think I would if a 4e fighter uses marks, encounter powers, and daily powers, and the 4ee knight just does a whole mess of buffing his attacks.

I don't mean to sound snippy or anything, I just see 4ee as a significant change (so far as we have seen from the previews) from 4e. So much so that I am still interested in the Red Box set. (Truth be told though, that video preview from another thread kinda soured me on it a little.)

 

[MortonStromgal]

I don't have a link or anything I just overheard part of a meeting while at PAX last year and then saw some charts in someones binder. You also have to put in perspective that they dont know the actual Paizo numbers they were just polling shops for ideas. But the chart had for every 2 books WOTC sold Paizo was selling 1 and the fear was that Paizo was just getting the ball rolling. Pathfinder was also like a month old and the Hot item at the stores.

The question is what happens to Pathfinder when it reaches its two-year mark. (Note that the Pathfinder core book + bestiary were released a year ago at Gencon 2009). At the present time, the 4E D&D PHB1/DMG1/MM1 books have already reached their two-year mark this past June (two months ago).

Will Pathfinder still have the same momentum, at this time next year?

Yes, this exactly...

 

[malraux]

What mechanical differences between 3.0 and 3.5? I gather from the previews that 4ee martial characters don't get daily powers anymore. Changing the fundamental base of the class and how it works is far different than changing durations of buff spells or splashing a few class abilities on the ranger.

Nitpick, 4ee presents builds of some martial characters without daily powers. It doesn't change the released classes.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I don't have a link or anything I just overheard part of a meeting while at PAX last year and then saw some charts in someones binder. You also have to put in perspective that they dont know the actual Paizo numbers they were just polling shops for ideas. But the chart had for every 2 books WOTC sold Paizo was selling 1 and the fear was that Paizo was just getting the ball rolling. Pathfinder was also like a month old and the Hot item at the stores.

That's random

 

[ggroy]

I don't have a link or anything I just overheard part of a meeting while at PAX last year and then saw some charts in someones binder. You also have to put in perspective that they dont know the actual Paizo numbers they were just polling shops for ideas. But the chart had for every 2 books WOTC sold Paizo was selling 1 and the fear was that Paizo was just getting the ball rolling. Pathfinder was also like a month old and the Hot item at the stores.



Yes, this exactly...

Undercover spy mission?

 

[MortonStromgal]

That's random

Actually what was random was hearing Steve Jackson tell one of his MIBs something to the effect that comming to PAX this year was more important than Gen Con... Yeah I was hanging out in the pen and paper area near the dev quite a bit. Helps to have friends who make games for a living and I just would keep my backpack at their table. Steve may be right to, we should have 70k+ people this year I believe as its almost completely sold out and we have more space.

Undercover spy mission?

Not Officially, more like having a backstage pass and making sure to get your bottled water from the cooler near the people you want to hear the dirt on.
other tid bit is Steve just wanders and has a great time... The WOTC folks feel like you have to go on a Shadowrun to get behind door number 3.

[edit] other fun story I had tickets for the CCP party and Justin Achilie was the DJ but I didn't know that and I was exhausted that night so I gave them away LOL

 

[Jasperak]

Nitpick, 4ee presents builds of some martial characters without daily powers. It doesn't change the released classes.

True 4ee doesn't change what has been released before (minimal changes at best: MM and the thief move) but if it sets the standard for the class builds in the 2 (or 3, not sure) class books then the fundamental change does matter.

I can see it now. People that love 4e saying "4e only games", some like me that had previously given up on 4e saying "4ee only games" and others embracing both.

That is of course if 4ee is different enough to matter to people like me. After watching the preview and listening to the guys reading the player's book, I get the feeling that at least the starter set is not for me and the changes that it and the rest of the essentials-line bring may not be enough to earn my gaming dollars.

I have said this before but will say it again; I hope it is the beginner set that D&D has needed since Metzer Red Box went off the shelves and hope it is as successful.

 

[ggroy]

Yes, this exactly...

One speculative possibility at this time next year (ie. summer 2011) is that both D&D and Pathfinder are not booming at all, with sales for both slumping and stuck at a ratio of 2:1 or 3:1 (or 4:1) for D&D splatbook sales to Pathfinder splatbook sales.

 

[mach1.9pants]

What mechanical differences between 3.0 and 3.5? I gather from the previews that 4ee martial characters don't get daily powers anymore. Changing the fundamental base of the class and how it works is far different than changing durations of buff spells or splashing a few class abilities on the ranger.

Or did I miss some more fundamental changes between 3.0 and 3.5? I don't think I could watch a game played with 3.0 and 3.5 rules and tell the difference, but I think I would if a 4e fighter uses marks, encounter powers, and daily powers, and the 4ee knight just does a whole mess of buffing his attacks.

I don't mean to sound snippy or anything, I just see 4ee as a significant change (so far as we have seen from the previews) from 4e. So much so that I am still interested in the Red Box set. (Truth be told though, that video preview from another thread kinda soured me on it a little.)

Ah what? None of the existing classes are getting changed, they are being added to. Saying that adding some builds with no dailies (that existing players don't have to use) is a big change as 3.0 to 3.5 (where, for example, some peoples class skills disappeared, meaning a rebuild) is not true IMO.