D&D 5E Will magic be problematic at latter levels?

[BobTheNob]

Ok, so we have flat scaling of d20 based roll growth. Awesome.

Now, spell casters (the dedicated type) get up to a +5 bonus at level 20 and (presumably by then) will have a stat of 20 for a total save dc to avoid their spells of...20!

Now, spell target ALL stats, but you can only consistently grow 2, therefore, 4 have fallen behind when comparing stat growth of the attacker vs defender (not great)

But this is what concerns me. Just for gaining levels, the casters DC has increased by 4 (starting at 1 and ending at 5), but there is no corresponding growth on the defenders side. Therefore, all other things being equal, if I needed a 12 to save against a certain wizards spells at level 1, I will need a 16 to save against the same spells at level 16

Now, given the mage should improve with levels, but shouldnt also the defender? Is there some tradeoff the defender gets that Im not taking into account?

 

[GX.Sigma]

I think this is part of the "getting better means actually getting better" philosophy. Martial characters get an attack bonus that goes to +5, and AC doesn't improve with level.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

I've found that magic is problematic at higher levels. Fighters are way outclassed by other classes by at least 8th level, by 15+ they might as well stay home half the time. The saving throws are only half of the problem.

 

[Iosue]

This is one of the things I've mentioned in my feedback. I don't know if it's as bad as in 3e, but saves vs. casters gets harder as levels go up as the rules stand now. IMO, saves should improve at at least the same rate as casters, if not better. If 5e doesn't provide for this, I'll do it myself.

 

[RangerWickett]

If they keep the idea of HP Thresholds, then failing a save won't take you out of combat too fast. Like, he might hit you with Dominate, and you'd be reduced to a single action per turn while you try to shake it off, but unless your HP is low you won't be dominated. And you'll have more HP, so 'takedown' effects will probably actually be less usable as one-shot kills than they were at low level.

At least, so I hope. I really like the HP Threshold mechanic, and I want to see it used more.

 

[Falling Icicle]

Since saving throws do not scale, spell save DCs shouldn't either.

 

[delericho]

TBH, I would be less concerned about the "direct effect" spells, and more about those that don't allow saves in the first place. That seems to be where many of the abuses in 3e seem to lie.

 

[Falling Icicle]

TBH, I would be less concerned about the "direct effect" spells, and more about those that don't allow saves in the first place. That seems to be where many of the abuses in 3e seem to lie.

With the spellcasting bonus, saving throws do little good at high levels. A 20th level wizard can have a save DC of 20 (10 + 5 for a 20 Int and +5 from class). Even if the target has a 20 ability score in the stat being targeted, he has only a 30% chance to save (having to roll a 15 or higher on the d20 to succeed). If the target is unfortunate enough to have a 10 in that score, he has only a 5% chance to save! This is ridiculously unbalanced, and I say this as someone who loves playing spellcasters.

As for the "direct effect" spells you mention, I thankfully haven't noticed any in the packet.

 

[1of3]

If they keep the idea of HP Thresholds, then failing a save won't take you out of combat too fast. Like, he might hit you with Dominate, and you'd be reduced to a single action per turn while you try to shake it off, but unless your HP is low you won't be dominated. And you'll have more HP, so 'takedown' effects will probably actually be less usable as one-shot kills than they were at low level.

At least, so I hope. I really like the HP Threshold mechanic, and I want to see it used more.

Was it like that in an earlier version of the playtest? This is not how Dominate currently works. I like the idea, though.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I much prefer the current version of Dominate, which gives the creature advantage on its save if it has more HD than your level, over HP thresholds, which I loathe.