Will the Magic System be shown the door?

[Wulf Ratbane]

They're from Complete Mage. An example is Acidic Splatter. So long as the caster has an acid spell of 2nd level or higher ready to cast he can use an orb of acid as a ranged touch attack. This does 1d6 damage per level of the spell.

All of them are similar. So long as the character has a spell of a certain type/level available he can use a subpar magical ability all day long, very similar to the warlock. It means that the caster can always do something useful.

Interesting.

Within the existing D&D ruleset, I'd say those are broken. (I'd lay that design work at the feet of someone who plays a lot of MtG.)

Which is not to say I don't think they are appropriate for a completely rebalanced game. But they're definitely broken with respect to a wizard without Reserve vs. a wizard with, and especially broken with respect to existing class balance.

 

[GreatLemur]

GreatLemur - have you ever tried Mutants & Masterminds? You build your own powers, and the rules are very good at letting you do exactly what you describe here. I think with a little imagination you can change the flavor to fit D&D as well.

You kidding? I love M&M. That system was one of the things I had in mind, actually.

But it's pretty far off from D&D, of course. An example that starts a little closer to home would be the psionics system. With the augmentation options of many powers, we've actually got the beginnings of an effects-based spellcasting system in D&D, already. All it needs is more augmentation options. Spending more points on manifesting energy missile to get additional damage is great, but why not spend points on greater range or additional targets?

 

[Mark CMG]

I could really ask, "is kicking butt non-stop in-game that essential to maintaining excitement in an RPG?" All the world really is a nail, when you have a hammer, a shoulder-mounted hammer-launcher, and hammers built into your boots. That's what having constantly-renewing resources taken to its conclusion really means to me.

I am now opening the bidding on this sig quote . . .

 

[hong]

Interesting.

Within the existing D&D ruleset, I'd say those are broken. (I'd lay that design work at the feet of someone who plays a lot of MtG.)

Which is not to say I don't think they are appropriate for a completely rebalanced game. But they're definitely broken with respect to a wizard without Reserve vs. a wizard with, and especially broken with respect to existing class balance.

Nah. They're cool at mid-levels, but after a while, being able to do (level/2)d6 in a 5' radius burst becomes obsolete. You might be able to do it forever, but then so could a warlock and you don't see many people complaining that they're more powerful than wizards. In fact, you might well end up wishing that you'd spent that feat slot on a metamagic feat instead.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Interesting.

Within the existing D&D ruleset, I'd say those are broken. (I'd lay that design work at the feet of someone who plays a lot of MtG.)

Why? Care to explain?

Personally, I won't call them broken. On the lower levels, they're top notch. But after 5th level... I'm not that sure. For example the fire one: I can cast fireball or throw a mini-fireball with 3d6 damage.

I'm playing in RHoD now, and while there are no reserve feats (it's Eberron + Core only), I cannot think of an instance, where my 7th level evoker is rather to hurl a 3d6 mini-fireball, if he can hurl his 7d6 + rod of empowering-fireball. Enemies are attacking me. I need to kill them quickly, so I can't wait to lob them off individually.

And if the encounter isn't that dangerous, I'm far better of with my magic missiles, which do 4d4+4 and allow no save.

Heck, even my Scorching Rays with 2x 4d6 are more important to me... point is: Reserve Feats are great in a world, where it actually matters that I have infinite firepower. In D&D-world, combat is fast and deadly. If I'm holding back, I'm going to be screwed. By fangs, teeth, and wings, because even the best mirror image runs out of power.

 

[hong]

Why? Care to explain?

Personally, I won't call them broken. On the lower levels, they're top notch. But after 5th level... I'm not that sure. For example the fire one: I can cast fireball or throw a mini-fireball with 3d6 damage.

I'm playing in RHoD now, and while there are no reserve feats (it's Eberron + Core only), I cannot think of an instance, where my 7th level evoker is rather to hurl a 3d6 mini-fireball, if he can hurl his 7d6 + rod of empowering-fireball. Enemies are attacking me. I need to kill them quickly, so I can't wait to lob them off individually.

Right. DPS is the key, when it comes to combat-related stuff.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Nah. They're cool at mid-levels, but after a while, being able to do (level/2)d6 in a 5' radius burst becomes obsolete. You might be able to do it forever, but then so could a warlock and you don't see many people complaining that they're more powerful than wizards. In fact, you might well end up wishing that you'd spent that feat slot on a metamagic feat instead.

Wait, it's also a 5' radius burst?

Definitely broken. Yes, perhaps it's only good through the mid levels, but it's out of balance with similar spells of its level. It's basically a 1st level spell that you can cast as often as you like. It may not be game-breaking, but it's certainly better than a 1st level spell that you can only cast once.

It probably starts to lose its luster around 4th level spells/7th level caster.

(Note the distinction between broken and game-breaking.)

Comparing the warlock to the wizard is out of context. If Wizard > Warlock, it follows that Wizard with Reserve feat > Warlock.

 

[YourSwordIsMine]

I see spells becoming collectors card sets with each caster knowing a certain amount of cards per spell level per level. Each card is a differant spell with differing affects and only lasts for the duration of the encounter. Each spell can only be played once per encounter but can be used every encounter.

I hope I'm wrong though.

 

[delericho]

Will the Magic System survive the upgrade to the next edition of D&D? If so, perhaps with what changes? If not, what will replace it?

I suspect it will go, to be replaced by a Warlock-esque per-encounter magic system.

I think this is unfortunate; I may well be in a minority, but I like the Vancian system (although some elements, notably metamagic and counterspelling, need a lot of work).

 

[hong]

Wait, it's also a 5' radius burst?

Definitely broken. Yes, perhaps it's only good through the mid levels, but it's out of balance with similar spells of its level. It's basically a 1st level spell that you can cast as often as you like. It may not be game-breaking, but it's certainly better than a 1st level spell that you can only cast once.

"Similar spells of its level"? Huh? It's a feat. It doesn't have a level.

If you mean highest-level spells that the caster has available, they'll generally be doing double the damage of the feat.

Comparing the warlock to the wizard is out of context. If Wizard > Warlock, it follows that Wizard with Reserve feat > Warlock.

No. The comparison of interest, and what you referred to originally, was wizard + reserve feat vs wizard. I am saying wizard + reserve feat ~ warlock, and they are definitely not > wizard.